Fair & pretty honest assessment from Malcolm. Too many in WRC have their heads in the sand. Other motorsport categories are giving better entertainment, coverage, ROI, etc
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Fair & pretty honest assessment from Malcolm. Too many in WRC have their heads in the sand. Other motorsport categories are giving better entertainment, coverage, ROI, etc
Right, but I fear he is exchanging causes with consequences.
It's true that something is missing on the promotional side of WRC, but the ones with their heads in the sand are Ford executives.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Toyota, VW, Hyundai and Citroen will be fully committed at the beginning of a new WRC golden era, but Ford prefers to be more involved in RX (still a marginal motorsport series comparing to WRC), forgetting they are the brand with most prestigious WRC heritage!
Above all, I think Wilson words reflect his perplexity about Ford motorsport options…
Ford now have a Global motorsport programme - with Ganassi/ Multimatic running a pair of the new Ford GTs in the GTE-Pro class in the WEC. And with proper backing, and promotion. A far cry from their WRC programme; I don't remember the Ford US top brass being involved with the WRC at all.
Yep, it seems all Ford motorsport programmes are now mainly U.S. oriented: besides Nascar and the GT programme that you've mentioned, there's also the Hoonigan/Block Rallycross World Championship participation (with technical support of MSport).Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
But Ford is a top 5 global automaker, with a strong european position. That WEC (a 2nd level programme, like GM's Corvette) and RX participations aren't enough. They should back MSport properly and enter WRC again as a manufacturer.
Motorsport.com
M-Sport driver Mad Østberg has driven flawlessly all weekend and climbed the standings as a result.
M-Sport World Rally Team's Mads Østberg and Ola Fløene have climbed into fourth position at Rally Mexico – courtesy of an intelligent drive behind the wheel of their Ecoboost-powered Ford Fiesta RS WRC.
Tackling 152.40 competitive kilometres, the second full day of competition included a pass of the Ibarrilla stage (SS11) which has posed something of an ‘Achilles Heel’ for the Norwegian in previous years. This year however, the gravel tracks didn’t cause him any issues as he settled into a comfortable rhythm.
Driving well, Østberg has run an intelligent rally thus far. Avoiding the pitfalls that catch out a number of crews year on year, the Norwegian has driven flawlessly all weekend and climbed the standings as a result.
With the FIA World Rally Championship's longest stage in more than 30 years left to contest, his consistency means that he and Fløene are in a strong position and have the potential to capitalise further should the unforgiving stages produce any more drama tomorrow.
Mads Østberg (4th) said: "Results wise it's looking really good. We've been driving well all weekend and I've driven my best all day. We've avoided any mistakes and we're now in fourth place which would be a really good result come the end of the rally. I think it's fair to say that both myself and the team were hoping for more, but that's the way it is and we're all working hard to improve."
What development steps has the Fiesta gone through since it was born, in all aspects of the car?
i do not know, but the development of Malcoms wallet is pretty damn good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
You are God, right? Then you should know everything MSport did on Fiesta last year. Sadly it wasn´t enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
And all without winning anything, or even coming close.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
His wallet fills from selling winning R5´s. Surely not so much from WRC campaign.
If Malcolm Wilson is making so much money from running his team why are more not doing it? I don't know his business details and I'm sure the others commenting on here do N.O.T. either, but in my everyday life everytime I've came across people making money relatively easily there are lots of other trying to emulate what they are doing. I'm sure if we all knew the detail of their accounts we'd see that for the investment and expertise involved the returns are most likely not spectacular.
He sells WRC cars, seats, R5, S2000 (before), rebuild them, etc. WRC campaign is here for promotion of business (with help from ford). Now there's also Bentley GT program...
You have a production body shell. Spice it with tuning stuff. Mount it together and double the price. Sell 75-100 a year. (I´m not saying that is how MW is doing, but all business are kind of like that, isn´t it?)
Nobody argues that he is the best in rallying business when it comes to promotion and profit, he just fails tragically at winning anything at top level since ford left, same like when he was behind the wheel, a failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nornbugger
Wilson failure was not hire Ogier. If he got the kid he smashed the others.
Cynically enough, neither Ford or Wilson want to win. Wilson : "Hi Ford, want some glory ? please pipe in some bucks.", Ford : " Hi, no, thanks, we're fine with you losing for us on a regular basis. We're only here to stay and be seen plus the sport is so badly managed with such poor visibility that we figured out the current bucks are good enough to fix your castle.", Wilson : " Ok, deal"Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
You use the word profit again, can you please enlighten me to just how lucrative Mr Wilsons business is please?
To call him and his efforts at MSport a failure is ludicrous, his efforts as a driver too, of course both have been less than they could have been but the only failure in this is the likes of yourself who having tried nothing have managed to achieve the same, grow a pair lad and get out and try and do something instead of belittling the efforts of those who's shoes you couldn't lace.
M-Sport a failure since Ford left ?? What do people expect, them to take on and beat the factory teams ??
Just remaining in the WRC is a success.
And having the highest placed non-VW driver in 2015 WDC.
Hello Nornbugger :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nornbugger
To describe M- Sport/Malcom Wilsons business plan I am sure that you know it consist of several parts:
- Running the WRC team (most of all as a promotion for M- Sport services.)
- Selling R5 and other rally cars.
- Selling parts for all of the above.
- Refurbishing/servicing all of the above.
And that is just the rally part.
M-Sport, as I am sure you know, also does rally cross, and will do the HOONIGAN/Ken Block team with a Focus this year (surely a multi year contract paid for by Ford, and also does endurance racing with Bentley in the Blancpain series, and will of course sell cars/services/parts etc.
M- Sport has also started dabbling in the street car arena with the M- Sport edition Ford Transit Van, and an edition of the Fiesta ST. They surely also "rent out" engineering capabilities, and with the planned expansion of their site, with much larges facilities (they are already large) and their own test track etc, they surely want to go more down the OEM route.
Judging by M-Sports ever growing site and number of staff (about 200 on the Dovenby Hall site at the moment I think), and their ability to do the WRC effort with no main sponsor, surely says something about the profits in the business.
And his business being so successful, is it others trying to emulate him?
Yes off course, and he is also emulating others. Its called the motorsport business.
His business plan is the same as Prodrive, Tommi Mäkinen Racing, etc etc. But the big thing seperating him is that he has been able to shift a large number of rally cars, and kept a closed loop on servicing/parts etc.
But its nothing new, its done all trough motorsport, even by big manufacturers like Porsche etc.
The success of the R5 class in rallying is much down to Malcolm Wilson. And off course several manufacturers are hopping on that band wagon, because they see that parts of their motorsport effort can actually yield a return profit.
Malcolm Wilson should be praised for running a stand alone motorsport effort that sustainable, and doesn't end with changing of the guards at the marketing department of a car brand.
And he also should receive praise for running a team that has a history of bringing up young talent. If you count the top WRC drivers today, and of the recent past, a huge number of them has gone trough M- Sport, if they had to pay or not: Latvala, Østberg, Neuville, H. Solberg, (and P. Solberg), Märtin, Evans, Tanak, Mikkelsen (Stobart). etc etc etc.
To call Malcom Wilson a failure is just ridiculous.
Spot on Lundefaret! He's basically being criticized for not ploughing his own hard-earned money back into a direct fight against manufacturers. A fight he knows he can not win. M-Sport could easily have walked away from the top level of the sport but have continually opted not to. And I'm massively thankful they haven't.
But why didn't they? Malcolm knows very well if he leaves series, the only option will become GT. WRC is golden duck for him...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
MSport footprint at WRC and on the global rally scene it’s now legendary.
Ok, he didn’t get Loeb and Ogier, but who can blame him for it? Ford leaved WRC for marketing reasons (when factories were closing down in Europe) but Wilson was able to secure their tech support and provide state of the art rally cars to customers around the world (they’re overpriced because of FIA rules).
For sure his (and our) aspiration was to see Ford coming back to WRC instead of joining RX field, but US Ford’s principals will realize (an WEC/LeMans fiasco can make it sooner than later) that the company right spot it’s on WRC, with MSport.
A quick look at Companies House shows:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history
That MSport is quite healthy. Not a large company, but certainly making a reasonable profit. Although of course filings are only to end of 2014.
I think anyone with a bit of maturity and understanding of what it means to run a business can only appreciate what MW has done. These cries about him getting rich are like teenager tantrums. Yes he most probably has a nice turnover from all the cars, parts and services M-Sport sells, and much of that is going back into growing the company. He has managed to remain in the WRC without manufacturer support only because that business exists and is able to generate enough income for him to spend on an expensive WRC participation.
But yeah it's quite easy to say on the internet he failed this and that while sitting in a comfy chair. I'm not his biggest fan and don't agree with some things he says or does but in any case I don't think you can call him a failure.
Good post. I agree that Wilson is not a failure, as a businessman or driver. It just bothers me, that it doesn't seem to bother him, that M-Sport are not competitive. I'm not sure why some of that turnover you talk about can't be used to pay a decent driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Interesting reading there..Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
46.6 million English Squids in turnover.
Total tax paid on everything: zero! They got credit to carry forward against any future tax liability..
Guess the Pommie Parliament is as kind to companies as the US Congress is...
Zero taxes paid...
Wonder if Malcom uses the same accounting firms on his 250,000 quid salary?
244.148, actually. The half a million is the total sum for all directors.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
The 0 tax expense is because of the R&D Tax credit system, which was introduced to encourage companies to invest in R&D.
Profits can not be carried forward, only losses can. They did so in 2013 for 123.000 pounds.
why to pay a driver that could win a championship?Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
will he sell more r5?
will he sell more parts from all previous r5 grA wrc r2 etc rally cars?
will he rent/sell/service more wrc cars?
will ford ever will pay for a works comeback, if Msport can win world championsips without Ford money?
NOT is the answer for all these questions.
Malcolm doesnt care about to win a wrc title.
He just cares to be present at wrc.All the others comes ''easy way''
at previous talks i ve said that is the most clever man at wrc circus.Or maybe the man, who has the most profit, from this circus if you like.
Who are all these 'top drivers' that MW wouldn't pay for, apart from Loeb & Ogier (who were settled at Citroen and probably outbid for by VW, respectively) ?
Hirvonen ? Latvala ? Neuville ? Ostberg ?
MW has tried them.
He cant be expected to have employed Meeke, Sordo, Mikkelsen and Paddon at some point as well..
Good question, he already tried to pay top coins for a top driver 15-16 years ago. The outcome wasn't very different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
VW have blown every other team out of the water since entering WRC, both financially and technically.
So how can a non -factory team seriously compete, either for titles or for drivers ?
I dont doubt that MW would love to be fighting at the very top, but it just aint possible.
what do you want to say,that Wilson offers money and multiyear contracts and nobody goes at Msport?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
its his tactics for plenty of years now when he has to pay drivers.Nothing new.
when it was possible with maybe the best car (focus 03)choosed Martin,Gardemaister,and Kresta....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
He tried to sign Loeb. He tried to sign Ogier. He couldn't have been much more public in trying to get Neuville back in a Ford.
He can't provide the same salary or development level on the car as a manufacturer.
Right now there are basically 3-4 guys who are rally-winning calibre drivers. And sometimes I think even that number is too high. So I'm not really sure what he's supposed to do. Safe pair of hands + young driver to nurture is about all we can expect.
are the losses carried forward for a maximum period of 5 years for tax purposes?Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
Simmi i dont talk about this year,but for last years.Yes now its impossible to hire a decent driver,even Toyota and Hyundai with plenty of money have similar problem.And when Toyota and Citroen comes,will be more difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
When they will be present vw.toyota,hyundai,citroen all of them willing to pay a good salary,its obvious you will hire these will left without drive.
Wilson have find through the years some talents,but didnt managed to keep somebody.All left.
Who would have won the WRC in an M-Sport Ford vs. Loeb ? Gronholm and Hirvonen pushed him as close as anyone. Who else should MW have hired ?
As for vs. Ogier/VW - Neuville came second in 2013 and Ostberg was the highest placed non-VW in 2015 ...
2005, the drivers were Gardemeister and Kresta. Arguably a worse line-up than today.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I'm not sure about British law but a quick Google search says there's no maximum period.Quote:
Originally Posted by gorganl2000
In the Netherlands the maximum period is 9 years.