I remember reading that financially the Hyundai deal wasn't as good as Toyota...but these things we never know for sure. RedGrey is another thing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
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I remember reading that financially the Hyundai deal wasn't as good as Toyota...but these things we never know for sure. RedGrey is another thing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Dunno how big or fat the contract was but they were able to keep their business goingQuote:
Originally Posted by er88
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Yes, he did. Also in the interview he said he said that the first talks to miss the rally were held during the simulation rally that was in the end of October so about one month before the rally. But anyway, I take his word for it and have made peace with it long time ago and hopefully all is okay with him and his family.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
My personal opinion why Ott left Toyota was that he was fed up with the atmosphere in the team and how much he has a say on different topics in the team. We can remember clearly that he was very frustrated about how certain things that were discussed about didn't improve (rims, floor). So maybe Adamo came in the right time and said who he is and how things are going to be in the team. If something needs to be done, then it will be done. And if one person in WRC has some track record, then it is Adamo. Maybe it is the beautiful past but if I remember correctly then Hyundai was becoming stronger and stronger and the pattern in Toyota was that if he can't have a say about different development things then soon Hyundai will pass them. Although in the end, Toyota repaired some of the mistakes, then maybe Ott felt that it was too much of a push to get things done and chose other path. And if we take Ott's word for it then he lost financially with the decision.
Sadly Hyundai also started to fall apart too much when Ott came as he made changes to get the car faster and more to his liking. In the interview he said it himself that the car wasn't designed to go that fast. And sometimes they had to take a step back to make some parts stronger (=heavier) and this reduced the speed. And like someone here said that with the new car he feels that all the mistakes are now ironed out and now they have wider window where they can operate and set things up.
Just to remind what I have been heard that he was part of the problems and many times the cause of conflicts at Toyota. I was able to press that out but my source didn't give me any details beyond that.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
As far as I understand Tommi didn't want him to leave....
IMHO we have drifted too far to the past now and are bit off the track so this is my last post about that Subject.
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Maybe to you, most of us are at peace with this topicQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
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Third season(starting) in Hyundai and still some people over again.. Oh, why he left Toyota? Why didn't continue? Must be money.. yada yada
I can see that but usually there are both sides in every conflict. If Ott felt that nothing wasn't done to improve situation and problems still exist then he had to be the one who asks why certain things are not progressing. And if someone felt that he is conflict initiator in these situations then it is their choice. Ott has said it many times that it is never personal, he just wants things done. So if we look like this that in Hyundai Adamo was the one who was pushing things (also said this in this interview) then one can again see why he might have left. Maybe in Toyota everyone were too soft and polite.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Yes, I also agree that too much of the past and would rather discuss current things.
I think the leadership and atmosphere in the team was also one of the reasons why Lappi left the team for 2019...and now he came back after some changes in the leadership.
He said itself it in some Estonian interview that he lost a lot of money going to Hyundai. Just on driver`s contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Markko Märtin is Ott's mentor/manager and Ott's move to Hyundai was his decision because he needed new R5 business for Red Grey team, as Toyota finished Katsutas development program with him (Katsutas Ford R5 was rented from RG Team). Money talks, now Ott's wife is sitting in the board of the joint company with MM, SQM2 Invest, their 2020 turnover was 5 089 857€, 2021 4 347 259€.
It`s really hard, if not possible to imagine, that Markko could make a decision for Ott. Ott, being solid "saarlane" (i.e.islander, something like an old tough-as-rock scotch fart). He is anything else but a stupid person.Quote:
Originally Posted by sti123
Not saying, R5 program had no impact, but that was definitely not the main reason.
Besides, Ott is probably making this 5 mil euros and more a year only on salary and bonuses. And this is net income, not turnover, where profit could be even negative.
Just a heads up - the interview now has english subtitles, if any of you foreigners want to take a look
I agree that in 2019 Hyundai was on an upward trajectory. They improved the car on fast gravel (Finland 2019) and were spending tons of money on testing rallies with Loeb to improved tarmac (which ultimately didn't help).
While Toyota seemed a bit less ahead than at end of 2018 and has some issues like rims (though quite a few of those punctures were clearly driver mistakes, like Corsica 2019).
Anyway a big interview summing up the 2017 WRC cars era is exactly where these kinds of topics should be asked about ( if the interviewer is sharp). Ex. "Did you think you would make the car work on tarmac even after drivers like Loeb struggled?
The mentality of deliberately avoiding the topic by some people here is quite astonishing. Open wound?
Tanak says they never even tested the new car on gravel before homologation.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
Which sounds like a recipe for disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
It is hard not to agree with you. Hopefully they catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
This is true but it is not as dramatic as it might seem. They tested this first version of the car on gravel, which in Ott's words wasn't as different as Adamo claimed to be. He said that the "soul" of the car was still the same (differentials, suspension, some of car's geometry). And they had only planned 1 test anyway which was cancelled because of Thierry's accident. Also the first gravel rally is in the middle of May so they have plenty of time to test for gravel. So in Ott's words "they roughly know where they are on gravel".Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I clicked "like" because it was interesting to hear from Ott that the car is not so different, I knew it was an Adamoism saying that only the rims are the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
However, I want to add the same as in the news thread: the cars are homologated, all decisions are locked, you can only change the setup or create a homologation joker (when is the next date?) and testing days are very limited (only one day per driver per rally). So although the first gravel rally is in May, they cannot really do anything (except for run the car in their permanent test area / dyno / wind tunnel or do simulations).
Totally understand and I'm also worried about this, to put it mildly. Just wanted to bring out the other side of it and not through speculations and guessing but through Ott's own words. And he admitted himself that the situation is not perfect but also not that bad as "haven't tested on gravel" might seem. The real development starts when they start rallying and gather data, see where they lack compared to others and what is good about this car.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Also good to remember that Toyota can test relatively unlimitedly on gravel in Jyväskylä and M-Sport in Greystoke (although that testing will not be that relevant to rallies like Acropolis and Kenya)
I don’t even know what to say
It’s like every decision he makes after 2019 is wrong, today the tyre choice again
When he is on it, then the car breaks down
Third year in a row 0 points from monte
Last year when there were rumors about him going to M-sport, I really wished so and after seeing the performance of Ford, I wish it even more it had happened
Okay, the season is still long and it’s just the first rally but as a fan it’s feels like the number of the year changes but the script every year is the same
I hope there’s a different script this year
Tanak seems lost, bored and unmotivated.
Currently I don't feel this way. Rather this was the case in the closing stages of last year when there was no chance for the title and he couldn't set up the car the way he liked. Haven't heard any English interviews from Monte but at least in Estonian media he is saying that car feels good but slow but they know what to do but don't have tools to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bomber21
I cant just get over it. He could be at third position right now, without that tire gamble...
Which Ogier has done many years. Waited until the fight in front produces results usually someone either crashing ot having mechanical. It's more typical in Monte.Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit12
Agreed, he should've had patience which he clearly doesn't have
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that's not really a complete analysis. the retirement came from the accident, not from the tire only. teammates was on the same strategy and get away with it, in the afternoon more than one other driver used the same tire choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit12
Yes. Bot on that morning stage, whole Hyundai team agreed, that it was a risky choice to gain some advantages....
actually a good choice tbh, didn't worked out because of other issues.
Was it really a good one? They lost a lot on the icy part
I don't know. If I was Ott, I would think 10 times before going with the same risky tyre choice that resulted in a DNF last year. He's lost so many rallies because of tyre issues, yet still wants to gamble with them. I don't even know what the upside of that gamble is, 1-2 seconds of gains for 1 stage? Matters a lot in Monte being 7th or whatever he was? It just looks stupid, even if it wasn't his own suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
E: Talking about the 5 tyre gamble, not the slicks on the snowy stage ofc.
i was talking the opposite, about slicks. 5 tire is ok if you can manage it...but i'm notorious for thinking tanak a "car stressing" driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Päss1928
edit: others with only 5 tire and puncturing today...
most analysis said so, but without an ok car to the end, remains controversial.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
If i was the teamboss, i would be shit angry on Ott.
1 time, ok
2 times, not ok.
3 times, its f..ing stupid, i would give ham a salary reduction. Its unserious.
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im thinking that maybe ott and thierry went out with 1 spare because the hybrid system was not working correctly, and they tried to compensate the extra weight of the hybrid system?
On wrc live Interview with Msport, in the background Tanak was there and Malcolm was getting his hand around his shoulder.
Ott probably already massively regretting signing that new multi year deal with Hyundai, instead of going back to Msport.
Perhaps there could be some kind of performance clause in Tänak's contract that he could use to move to M-Sport? I know it probably sounds unrealistic but in F1 there have been such situations where a driver has such clause set in the contract. Although, when I think about it, the driver has then changed teams for the next season and not in the same year. All in all, probably just a wishful thinking from my side since I cannot see how the situation at Hyundai will get any better. But will see.
Guys don't lose your minds now. At M-Sport he would not get the salary he needs or wants. You need to look now at the so called bigger picture as he is a family man.
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like Ott said in that podcast interview."no point to look back to the past, you have to look into future"Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
whats done is done, now big work ahead to get the car up to speed and working....it wasnt that bad as it seemed