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when was the last time a whole finish team based in finland produced something of value in motorsport ???Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
exactly...
it is going to be a big party though for 1-2 years... fun fun fun.
Thank god for the autistic japanese.
This will be the first time.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Tommi Mäkinen meeting with Japanese guests of Toyota
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLUC1xxWEAA29YQ.jpg:large
There wasn't a single bit of anti-Makinen sentiment in my post. I massively want this programme to succeed. You have to admit though this is far from the normal route for a manufacturer programme. This is the world's biggest car manufacturer and they are looking at moving into the local kindergarten. Okay, shiny facilities are not everything - look at how McLaren/Honda F'd up their latest car. But the amount of control Tommi has been handed here seems almost unprecedented.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
I truly hope it works because the WRC needs a strong Toyota.
VW is now bigger then toyota (latest results on sales)...
Try to tweet that to Gazoo's twitter (if exist).., that could be hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Fingers crossed for them.
But in a way you said this one could interpret that Tommi wouldn’t be the guy to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Could you please then explain what you mean what you said.
“Tommi clearly sold Toyoda-san the dream over some long evenings in the sauna. Now he's got to actually produce.
It really seems like a maverick move for what is a major manufacturer programme. Because right now it just seems like Tommi is getting his mates together.”
Imo it isn’t normal “I wonder why Tommi Mäkinen got the deal”.
And yes, I was surprised about Tommi getting the deal. But giving employees (in this case Tommi) freedom to design their own tasks and giving them responsibility, increase the motivation to do a good job. The communications can also be more remote compared to earlier days. In earlier days communication was face to face, today communication can be screen to screen. But imo face to face is the best way of communication even today.
They are not looking to move into a local kindergarten. The building where the kindergarten is, is Tommi’s, the Jyväskylä city’s kindergarten are there as Tommi’s tenants. He didn’t need such big premises when the demand for N group car decreased, which they build about 30 in the best days.
As I said earlier they not need any big premises in the beginning because it’s most about the design of the car to the 2017 regulations and the assembling of few test units. Few guys designing the car with CAD and with simulation programs and sending the result of the designs to a fabricator of the parts.
I think that Mirek as a CAD designer could give a more professional approach what is possible with the current CAD design programs. I.e. design of a part, the program creates a list of needed materials and a parts list, sending the file to the fabricator’s CNC lathe of the part and start the fabrication of the part. Is it possible, I don’t know?
In my book it makes sense to locate to Finland.
best drivers
best test roads
best driver development, and best driver management, that goes both for racing and rally.
the only challenge as I see it is language. But you don't have to be a native speaker in english to make yourself understood!
I also would like Toyota to once again win in rally. Lets see how the R5 turns out, and what they learn from that!
Go Gazoo !!
out of all this propaganda maybe the managers are the best and again only when it comes to stupid japanese teams and their autistic choices... proper teams only use the finish kids for support roles nowadays and they use real men for the hard tasks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Tell them, N.O.T... :D
Your greek right?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
It might be frustrating Loeb didn't break Finnish rally victories record.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
yes but not for much longer maybe 2 years maximum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
The REALLY frustrating part is that i expected a giant like Toyota to enter the WRC as a full manufacturer entry and from the looks of things they are transforming into a closed circle party of super best friends with catastrophic failure written all over it...Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
It is frustrating for all rally fans less and less manufacturers to be interested in factory wrc rally teams. But that is how the reality is. May be Toyota would be more interested in hybrid technologies in rally for a factory development.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Toyota cares not about your expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Money talks...
First point - I meant exactly what I said, as written. I'm pretty sure that's probably what happened. Toyoda came over to Finland last year and I read in Autosport that Tommi lobbied him to get this programme. So he surely had to convince Toyoda-san that his way was a better way than TMG - who assumed they would be getting the programme.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Second point - Again I think this is pretty clear. Tommi is bringing in people he's worked with (Zotos/Donaldson) and drivers he is friends with. I'm not saying that's not logical, and there's probably loads of recruitment going on behind the scenes. But the way everything has seemingly been put on Tommi makes it feel like TMR WRC Team rather than Toyota Gazoo WRC Team.
Please don't think what I am saying is anti-Finnish or something. That's your interpretation.
you suffer so much?Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Toyota's 3 step plan for motorsport succes:
1. Spent gazillions to build a race team from the ground on up
2. ??
3. World Champion.
Maybe this time they will figure out what step 2 is...
I have still a question to people who says that "Finland is logical choice" because of best drivers, best distance to Japan, best roads etc...
Why Toyoda realized it 2 years late?
I wonder why no team used that " best drivers, best roads, best managers" logic until now...Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Loeb's gone. I think you are suffering, while all around you are rejoicing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Sooo where's the secret test today in Jyvaskyla...? ;)
But what you are saying no one else did things like Tommi do when building up a new team? I think everyone has to use their connections to be successful. And like OldF says, the only odd is that it´s not situated in England, France or Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Because Cologne didn´t do the thing right. No winner from that place the way they have managed it so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Just north of Jamsa it seems like. Colin Clark just streamed a short video with Periscope and that shows his location.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Does anyone know it's actually Toyota? What would they be testing? Hyundai are doing VIP runs today but I don't know why they'd be branding that a 'secret'.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartijnS
Its Hyundai VIP runs indeed.
Still, it's something he could know before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I cant understand the logic behind Makkinen bashing here.Some people seem to prefer the sterile "works" approach as seen with VW and Citroen.But the independant team supported by a manufucturer has worked similarly if not better in results.Examples are countless(Richards/Prodrive/Subaru,Cowan/Ralliart/Mitsubishi,Wilson/M-Sport/Ford).Hell,even the old TTE was quite similar in approach with these teams as one man(Ove Andersson) set up and run the team with support from Japan.So,all in all, there is no indication that a Makkinen/TMR/Toyota way is doomed to fail as most people here suggest.
+10Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
We'll see what tractor driver can do with toyota...
For me Makkinen/Finland is not the problem. My doubts are about Toyota's way of planning an entrance in an international competition among the best drivers and teams. To succeed in such a strong competition you should have your ideas clear from the very beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
To make me understand better, if Makkinen idea was there from the beginning and then they decided, 2 years later, to go with TMG I would have the same doubts about TMG choice.
One more thing: I'm not sure it will be a stupid move, we don't know all the people involved, all the situation and all the test data. We can just make assumption. And I'm just doubting this is a sort of gambling move, because from outside it seems like that.
Mostly because this used to be a UK monopoly, both in rally and racing.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
it became a big discussion when teams moved og the island, and to Germany. France also have a few people that knows motorsport. The challenge for both are still the same, language. Then international language, also in motorsport is english, and both those countries started late to offer that as the preferred foreign language in primary school. Both are still dubbing on TV.
Finland as said has the same challenge. Have driven through the north part of Finland, not a soul understood a word of english. This was in the early 90s, so it might have changed.
Have worked with many germans, french, and finns in NATO, and they are well spoken in english, but many have learned it in their adult years.
Maybe Spain is a good choice, being the fastest growing language worldwide!
Shouldnt Toyota start testing right new the Yaris with the 2017 new specs?
2017 rules haven't been agreed by WMSC yet. Of course something is known (and for sure the teams know more than us) but still they are not finished.
Totally agree*. This Makinen chance to grow his private structure into a factory supported WRC entrant, like the mentioned examples, should be seen as a positive input to rally sport. TMR will have the resources to get involved in other categories besides WRC. Makinen has already spoke on his interest to develop R5 cars and in the long term R2/R3 will probably follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
In the case of Toyota lets face it: how many of the guys involved in TTE's glorious WRC past remains today in TMG? Very little, for sure. TMG staff it's linked with the post TTE's efforts, essentially the F1 fiasco and the LeMans still (ever?) to accomplish success.
Those who think Toyoda is a foolish fellow are totally wrong. He's a bright CEO that, God (or whatever) bless him, is also a petrolhead. Gazoo is a powerful marketing company developed by him and from the beginning motorsport made part of it. Putting Gazoo in control of all Toyota's autosport programmes (from local racing to Nascar, Le Mans and now WRC) it's a clear sign of how seriously Mr. Toyoda consider motorsport helpful to his giant automotive group development.
As for the geographical issue, in nowadays globalized world basing a technologic facility in a remote location doesn't seems to be that strange, especially when there's a strong cultural environment. No doubt that Finland has a "rally culture" background like few others.
*apart from considering Citroën approach sterile; they've compete in a high level and always kept the sport accessible to privateers, providing a vast range of rally cars.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120236 will be based in Finland
If placed in Finland, I can easily see the benefits of building the team in Halli, former military area. Area itself is big enough and no longer in use by military. As far as known it's been sold to a private owner now. Buildings in the area (hangars, houses, ...) might not be in top condition, so in that sense building new ones right for the purpose of the team makes sense. Biggest benefits comes from the area. They would have kilometres of narrow and wider gravel roads in use for testing. Some are even within fenced area. Some could be surfaced with tarmac. There's a working airfield. If they need big cargo, fine. If they need a bit of tarmac testing, why not. If they need to use bigger and faster gravel roads, they're available in the area. Almost all of Rally Finland pre-event testing takes place within 60 km radius from that base. Halli itself is a town small like a fly's shit, but it's one hour drive from Tampere-Pirkkala airport. Also one hour drive to Jyväskylä and less than one hour drive to downtown Tampere, which is the biggest inland city in Nordic countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
I see some benefits for myself too. My parents-in-law live two kilometres from that former military base...
how rich do you think Makinen and his friends will be by the end of the project ??