Poll on who was at fault

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

On the line, just, but not off the track. He had the room.

Look at the angle of Seb's steering wheel. That's not straight, is it?

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It's impossible to say, the camera isn't straight on, as you can see from the aerials on the nosecones of the Red Bull's.

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

Conclusion: Just like St. Devote having better data than Bridgestone, Markabilly has better data than Redbull.

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I notice our esteemed colleague is on "holiday"

<Default Anglo Forum Member Setting ON>

The German is to blame

<Default Anglo Forum Member Setting OFF>

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

On the line, just, but not off the track. He had the room.

Look at the angle of Seb's steering wheel. That's not straight, is it?

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Check billy's sequenced shots and you'll see Webber's trajectory is toward the line .
Had Vettel kept it straight , he was off track .

In the sequence , we also see the first braking distance marker in view on the right , just as the contact occurs .

Webber had him to the line .
To keep him there to long , with Seb on the dirt inside , was just asking for trouble .
He was already past . There was no point in keeping him that tight that they would lock wheels .

This wasn't a lunge down the inside just before the corner .
Webber conceded that he lost the position and made a conscious choice to make it as hard as he could for Vettel .
That was the way he characterized it .
The pass was made before they got to that brake marker .

The way Hammy and Bunbun diced looked like when they made the moves , they had the intention to pass and repass , rather than make it hard for each other .
They showed respect for each others' abilities .
It was great to see .

It seems to me that the two Mac drivers are revved by the team-mate competition , and the Bull boys are rattled by it .

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

On the line, just, but not off the track. He had the room.

Look at the angle of Seb's steering wheel. That's not straight, is it?

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You would **** (I used the *'s ) yourself if I pushed you so close to the white line on a motorway at 100mph but you think it was so easy to go into braking zone at almost 200 mph and you call that enough room for racing. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Oh and BTW Nationality has bugger all to do with it.

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You're being naive now.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You're being naive now.

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vettel starting to copy schumacher

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Originally Posted by Daniel

If you believe that Webber is 0% to blame then this can only mean that you think Vettel intentionally crashed into Webber on purpose which is just unthinkable.

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I think that Webber is 0% to blame, and I've never thought Vettel made contact intentionally. It could have been brain fade, it could have been he thought he was clear, or it could have been that he thought Mark would move at the last split second.

People keep arguing that the pass was made, and I disagree with that. Had Vettel completed the pass he could have chopped right hard and got back on the racing line, and no contact would have taken place. In reality the pass was about 1/2 made, and he didn't finish it.




As for the Webber "flick to the left" I can't see it on any video. And I can watch the Webber in car shot on my DVR frame by frame.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Check billy's sequenced shots and you'll see Webber's trajectory is toward the line .
Had Vettel kept it straight , he was off track .

In the sequence , we also see the first braking distance marker in view on the right , just as the contact occurs .

Webber had him to the line .
To keep him there to long , with Seb on the dirt inside , was just asking for trouble .
He was already past . There was no point in keeping him that tight that they would lock wheels .

This wasn't a lunge down the inside just before the corner .
Webber conceded that he lost the position and made a conscious choice to make it as hard as he could for Vettel .
That was the way he characterized it .
The pass was made before they got to that brake marker .

The way Hammy and Bunbun diced looked like when they made the moves , they had the intention to pass and repass , rather than make it hard for each other .
They showed respect for each others' abilities .
It was great to see .

It seems to me that the two Mac drivers are revved by the team-mate competition , and the Bull boys are rattled by it .

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Your analysis does not appear to be supported by the photos at post #92

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Originally Posted by nitromaster

I can't help but post despite trying not to get drawn into this.

Unfortunately the clips themselves have now been removed from YouTube so I can't watch them again and will just refer to on-board shots in general.

When watching from the on-board camera it is usual to see slight movement of the steering wheel left and right even when the car is travelling in an apparent straight line. So if you do take a snap-shot frame of EITHER car, the steering wheel may well be tilted one way or the other but, as it is a single frame, doesn't really indicate much since there is no clue of time or what happened a split second before and after.

From actually watching it, Vettel steered towards Webber in a bid to give himself a better line into the next corner. From that I think that it is fair to say that Vettel caused the accident - not because he was attempting to pass but because as he edged in front he started moving over.

From the point of view of avoiding the accident (which is different from causing it) they can share equal blame. As both Vettel and Webber could have avoided it. Vettel, of course, should have not steered into his team mate but, since he did, Webber could have moved out of his way. Racing drivers have to walk a narrow line between standing their ground and avoiding accidents and that is up to them and their employers which is why I said could rather than should there.


]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84093

Interestingly Autosport reports that Webber had on a previous lap radioed the team and asked them to tell Vettel to hold station (or slow down). With two McLarens not far behind them I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that maybe the team can share some of the blame, for not managing their drivers well enough as this situation brewed. I'm not suggesting team orders. If Webber was slowing and Vettel was stuck behind with a looming Hamilton the 1-2 would have been getting fragile...

The likelihood is that both drivers would approach it different if they could go back and try it again.

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This post is just about spot on!