Webber--dirty driver and hypocrite

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Originally Posted by studiose

You want proof that Senna was/is widely condemned for Estoril '88?? My dear fellow, do some reading. ;) The proof is... everywhere! :)

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It's hilarious that you're using an incident from 20 years ago to justify your thoughts today. Actually is proof in case that your concept is bizarre.

In 1988 the US President was Ronald Reagen. Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by studiose

I know it's not a popular opinion, but it's mine. ;)

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Kudos to that....

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Guess 150 posts, time for me to join the fun...

How people can defend the in-defense able always amazes me. How can anybody suggest it wasn't a dirty move? where was Webber going, to get a better view of a fan or something? maybe there is a Tim Hortons drive-through at pit exit?



Aren't we a little beyond hollow threats?



Thanks thunderbolt, just enough in there to hang yourself:

Unwritten rule 4: A defending driver may move off-line once to defend his position and then move back to his original line on the way into a corner, but cannot push a rival on that line off the track

Now I really hate it when Hobbs is right over on speedtv, but he did comment that Webber had made 2 moves, which is almost impossible to see with out watching the move frame by frame. But Webber did pause his momentum going towards pit side of the track (even if for only some 3 frames on my dvd players frame advance) but enough to run afoul of this "un-written rule"

Edit: I Believe the unwritten rule is in regards to only 1 move to defend a position. the author of that story added more to make it fit his story. Either way, allowed 1 move to defend, Webber made 2...



wasn't the clip in the your first link good enough? Wanna know why that clip his hardly comparable? First, we are talking a dispute going into a corner, the "un-written" rule concerning this is... the driver ahead gets the racing line. Now did you notice it was a drying track? So we can clearly see Hamilton following the dry racing line. and with Webber on the wetter part of the track, its equally likely that Webber had some control issues as well.

Now to dig up a link to the thread about someone pushing Massa towards pit wall... remember the outrage... Massa was almost over the white lines!!! PENALTY!!! :p :

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The day someone is in a box checking moves on slow-frame to see if a penalty is handed out is the day I no longer follow F1. Plain and simple.

In Webber's own words:

"I moved accross the track to the pit lane re-entry point to protect my line to try and force Fernando to take the outside line, instead Fernando dived out into the pit lane and I think a bit onto the grass, I had to move back accross the track to give him some room by which time he was already past, I knew I had to get back around him or my race was screwed so I lifted and ducked back accross to the inside and made the pass"

From that, and then reviewing the video, its quite clear that webber moved accross to the outside of the track BEFORE Fernando pulled out of the draft, Webber was trying to make him take the outside line but it was Fernando who CHOSE to take the inside lane by diving into the pit lane.

If Fernando was already alongside and Webber then drove accross the track then that would be a different story, and Fernando would have been jumping up and down about it, but thats not what happened, its bloody obvious Fernando ducked out into the pit lane AFTER webber had driven accross the track, are you people bloody stupid or something?

Fernando knows that, hence why he didn't complain, he made a bloody gutsy move to try and make a position but Webber was even gutsier by breaking massively late for the corner to get the position back.

It was just good hard racing, I don't understand your bloody problem

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Originally Posted by RJL25

It was just good hard racing

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:up:

Which we dont see enough of anymore, even with the new aero regs. I'm all for drivers pushing the limits, both in pace and defending their position.

What we saw by Mark Webber was by todays standards, great driving.
( & very entertaining! )
However, the whole blocking/weaving thing has me amused.
You cannot complain about less overtaking whilst this is allowed.
It is a speed event isn't it?, the original concept?
Or is it a reflection of the present world?, i.e: obstructionism.
Weaving/blocking has grown like a cancer in motorsport as it has crept in over time. Some drivers have pushed the boundries at times but have got away with it as the stewards have been weak.
A football fan can't complain ( re: overtaking ) that footballers don't carry the ball enough if the opposition can hold them by the arm, can they?
Whats the difference?

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Originally Posted by punter_S14

What we saw by Mark Webber was by todays standards, great driving.
( & very entertaining! )
However, the whole blocking/weaving thing has me amused.
You cannot complain about less overtaking whilst this is allowed.
It is a speed event isn't it?, the original concept?
Or is it a reflection of the present world?, i.e: obstructionism.
Weaving/blocking has grown like a cancer in motorsport as it has crept in over time. Some drivers have pushed the boundries at times but have got away with it as the stewards have been weak.
A football fan can't complain ( re: overtaking ) that footballers don't carry the ball enough if the opposition can hold them by the arm, can they?
Whats the difference?

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The whole point in Mark going to the right was to make Alonso pass on the left so Mark had the inside line for the corner. He was not attempting to prevent Alonso from making the move. Alonso however was having none of it......

Do none of the naesayers see that?

IMHO if this move was outside the bounds of propreity Fred would probably say something.
Although he may not, because I think he really enjoys mixing it up on the track.
However, Flavio would be screaming bloody murder. :)

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

The whole point in Mark going to the right was to make Alonso pass on the left so Mark had the inside line for the corner. He was not attempting to prevent Alonso from making the move. Alonso however was having none of it......

Do none of the naesayers see that?

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Apparently not, I mean its incredibly obvious, but some people are just set against certain drivers, some against Webber, some against Hamilton, some against Button, etc, and so they search for anything they can to have a dig at that certain driver and make a big deal about it. If it was there fravorite driver they would be saying how great it was.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Man!! if you are relying on markabilly and fousto as reinforcements, then you are in deep poo poo. You will get the George Custer feeling very soon. :p :

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I understand how painful the truth must hurt you being that Webber is one of the "pride of britanna"..........but you are the one who should be pulling out arrows out of your a$$----neither of us are relying upon anything but the evidence and only the evidence in form of videos.......

Webber did the dirt, and racing would have more passing, if it were not for such trash moves by someone who preaches better....but was in not england that gave rise to the definition of hypocrite??? As with fellow countrymen Max, Bernie, Dennis, Lewis.... :D