The Ferrari thread !

It is now clear that team orders are allowed, so re write the ruling banning team orders from now.

It could change the dynamics of the last few races if it is now easier for teams do do what they need to in order to win the title rather than having to let their drivers take points off each other.

In other words Good news for
Ferrari & Alonso
Webber
Hamilton

Bad News for:
Button
Vettel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aki13

It is now clear that team orders are allowed, so re write the ruling banning team orders from now.

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well we've seen that this is not the case, because the punishment is 100 000 euros. such a heavy price to pay for the big teams, clearly :rolleyes:

I'd have liked to have seen ferrari's constructors points from the race taken away as well as Alonso disqualified, but maybe this is because I felt like it was Massa's moral victory.

one thing is for certain now though: If lord fred of ferrari becomes world champion, I for one will take it as a farce.

Honestly as far as I am concerned, there is no official document by the FIA. It was several hours ago when the Italian said about the decision, so who knows what will FIA do. I hope that the Ferrari are really not punished, but who knows. One this is sure - under the new boss FIA is even slower than during the reign of Max :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

They escaped whitout further penalties.

Why aren´t I suprised.

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It could be because you don't understand the law as well as you think you did?

The notion you put forward that, should Ferrari have taken civil proceedings against the FIA in the result of a guilty verdict, that Ferrari would be found to have brought the sport into disrepute is wholly incorrect.

It is enshrined within European judicial legislation that no person or group, in this specific case the FIA, can prejudice or submit punishment against another person or group, in this case Ferrari Spa, should that other person or group begin civil proceedings against them.

In effect, the current European Convention on Human Rights (Article 6), commonly referred to as the Human Rights Act, prevents any measure which would be seen to impede the right to a free trail.

Any action taken by the FIA in direct response to a court action by Ferrari against them would be viewed as such an impediment and as witness intimidation.

That means that, no matter what the rulebook of the FIA states, any action taken by a governing body is of secondary importance to the civilian and public judicial system and is unlawful.

Furthermore, as any action taken by the FIA in terms of punishing Ferrari, or another competitor starting legal proceedings, would be immediately in direct confrontation with the European Convention of Human Rights, and as both the FIA and Ferrari are subject to the above mentioned Act, there would be nothing that the FIA could do about it.

But, after 6 years of law studies, you would surely have known this?

Also, bringing a sport into disrepute is merely a sporting organisations framework, not one recognised by the public legal system. Therefore it would be impossible for the FIA to bring a legal action against Ferrari for this.

Quote:

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"Ferrari has taken note of the decision of the FIA World Council, relating to the outcome of this year's German Grand Prix and wishes to express its appreciation of the Council's proposal to review article 39.1 of the Formula 1 sporting regulations, in light of what emerged during today's discussions."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86481

So, no appeal against the original decision by the stewards which found Ferrari in breach of article 39.1, no further punishment by the WMSC, and a review of the rule banning team orders.

:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

They escaped whitout further penalties.

Why aren´t I suprised.

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You aren't? Wow, you were constantly reminding us how Fernando will lose his victory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86481

So, no appeal against the original decision by the stewards which found Ferrari in breach of article 39.1, no further punishment by the WMSC, and a review of the rule banning team orders.

:up:

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Sounds reasonable all around. (especially since I have Ferrari & Alonso as part of my FGP Team ;) )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

It could be because you don't understand the law as well as you think you did?

The notion you put forward that, should Ferrari have taken civil proceedings against the FIA in the result of a guilty verdict, that Ferrari would be found to have brought the sport into disrepute is wholly incorrect.

It is enshrined within European judicial legislation that no person or group, in this specific case the FIA, can prejudice or submit punishment against another person or group, in this case Ferrari Spa, should that other person or group begin civil proceedings against them.

In effect, the current European Convention on Human Rights (Article 6), commonly referred to as the Human Rights Act, prevents any measure which would be seen to impede the right to a free trail.

Any action taken by the FIA in direct response to a court action by Ferrari against them would be viewed as such an impediment and as witness intimidation.

That means that, no matter what the rulebook of the FIA states, any action taken by a governing body is of secondary importance to the civilian and public judicial system and is unlawful.

Furthermore, as any action taken by the FIA in terms of punishing Ferrari, or another competitor starting legal proceedings, would be immediately in direct confrontation with the European Convention of Human Rights, and as both the FIA and Ferrari are subject to the above mentioned Act, there would be nothing that the FIA could do about it.

But, after 6 years of law studies, you would surely have known this?

Also, bringing a sport into disrepute is merely a sporting organisations framework, not one recognised by the public legal system. Therefore it would be impossible for the FIA to bring a legal action against Ferrari for this.

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Why aren't Ferrari bringing civil action then? The steward found them guilty and imposed the maximum punishment. The FIA hearing upheld the ruling and the punishment and chose not to repeal the punishment. Therefore they consider Ferrari guilty of breaking the team orders rule and of bringing the sport into disrepute. The rule breach is still considered to have happened by the governing body, but they found the existing punishment enough. Ferrari have not been cleared.

Are they now accepting they are guilty, or have they merely decided that £100k is not worth worrying about and they don't care about the stigma of being guilty as long as the punishment doesn't really effect them? Because however you cut it they are still found guilty, but now no longer threatening court action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

It could be because you don't understand the law as well as you think you did?

The notion you put forward that, should Ferrari have taken civil proceedings against the FIA in the result of a guilty verdict, that Ferrari would be found to have brought the sport into disrepute is wholly incorrect.

It is enshrined within European judicial legislation that no person or group, in this specific case the FIA, can prejudice or submit punishment against another person or group, in this case Ferrari Spa, should that other person or group begin civil proceedings against them.

In effect, the current European Convention on Human Rights (Article 6), commonly referred to as the Human Rights Act, prevents any measure which would be seen to impede the right to a free trail.

Any action taken by the FIA in direct response to a court action by Ferrari against them would be viewed as such an impediment and as witness intimidation.

That means that, no matter what the rulebook of the FIA states, any action taken by a governing body is of secondary importance to the civilian and public judicial system and is unlawful.

Furthermore, as any action taken by the FIA in terms of punishing Ferrari, or another competitor starting legal proceedings, would be immediately in direct confrontation with the European Convention of Human Rights, and as both the FIA and Ferrari are subject to the above mentioned Act, there would be nothing that the FIA could do about it.

But, after 6 years of law studies, you would surely have known this?

Also, bringing a sport into disrepute is merely a sporting organisations framework, not one recognised by the public legal system. Therefore it would be impossible for the FIA to bring a legal action against Ferrari for this.

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They have signed to the Concorde agreement until 2012, they have to live by the rules as the other teams or they shall be kicked out.

And yeah, FIA is a sporting organisation, noone is forcing a team to join them.

Well well, bringing the sport into disrepute can cost 100.000.000 USD if you are McLaren and 100.000 USD if you are Ferrari.

Shouldn't someone sue the FIA for bringing the sport into disrepute?!