What Happens Next?

Jimspeed, I think you should probably stick with Sanguin. He seems to be serving what you are drinking. As for being "important" LOL! I sincerely doubt that anyone on these boards would qualify in that category. Anyone with any get up and go, already got up and went somewhere else. We are the sum total of the handful of people left who still care about this once great series. I posted what I did because I think it is likely true. You are free to think otherwise but we will all find out soon enough won't we?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

Jimspeed, I think you should probably stick with Sanguin. He seems to be serving what you are drinking. As for being "important" LOL! I sincerely doubt that anyone on these boards would qualify in that category. Anyone with any get up and go, already got up and went somewhere else. We are the sum total of the handful of people left who still care about this once great series. I posted what I did because I think it is likely true. You are free to think otherwise but we will all find out soon enough won't we?

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Lets get a few things straight. Jimispeed has hardly been one of the kool aide drinkers here. And yes a lot of folks have left, many because of self sanctimonious comments like: "We are the sum total of the handful of people left who still care about this once great series." Since when do the few self proclaimed "insiders" here have some sort of monopoly on caring about Champ Car?

Gary

jimispeed, you seem to be of the opinion that things will be better for CC if the owners throw money at it for marketing and promotion, etc. This isn't Kansas, Toto, and the man behind the curtain is more deeply hidden than that.

Some of this is IMO, but....

1. The Amigos got it for a song in bankruptcy court, $3.1 million, and figured they stole it and looked like White Knights to the CW crowd.

2. Somehow, Pook blowing through $100 million ($ONE HUNDRED MILLION) just to stay on the race track and TV in 2003 escaped them that this was going to be an easy thing to do with what KK called the "best five-year plan he ever had."

3. They have ALREADY thrown plenty of money at it. I wouldn't even guess a figure. But I would certainly think it's much more than they anticipated spending, just to stay on TV and keep cars on the race track and even find race tracks to run on.

To start with, it's the basics that are missing. For ONE example, most series have a 2008 schedule. With that, their teams can go to sponsors and say "here's where we're racing when and we're also going to be on 'X' network on TV for all of 'em." With that, sponsors can decide to start with whether to say yes or not and if they say yes, can start planning promotion on those weekends in those places if it fits their marketing plan. If a sponsor says yes, that gives the team a budget to hire a driver and plan to race.

Walker was quoted in Phillips' SPEEDTV.com story as saying the teams had the "mission statement" of "Festivals of Speed" and don't know what the mission statement is now. That's true. Is it national or international? Is it NAFTA or global? That tells a team what kind of sponsor might be a good fit.

Because there's no schedule for '08 (and IMO, nowhere near one), all the business that could be conducted by the rest of the industry is on hold. And with CC's credibility of announcing schedules and cancelling races, that creates another set of problems.

That's all BEFORE you throw money at marketing and promotion.

Tut, tut, come now Gary, Jimi, don't you understand? Peons like you and I are just too stupid to hold a candle to the mighty, all-knowing, all-seeing "insiders." Only they know what the facts are, and who the others with real insight are, and we must believe them for no other reason than they say so! After all, they have "established ... credibility over a period of years"
according to their own pronouncements! Simply stating enough times that you are an insider and know more than everyone else, albeit without providing any hard, verifiable evidence, is apparently enough of a bona fide on these boards. No wonder I read these boards less and less these days, SSDD...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Lets get a few things straight. Jimispeed has hardly been one of the kool aide drinkers here. And yes a lot of folks have left, many because of self sanctimonious comments like: "We are the sum total of the handful of people left who still care about this once great series." Since when do the few self proclaimed "insiders" here have some sort of monopoly on caring about Champ Car?

Gary

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garyshell, point taken about jimspeed. My apologies to both of you.

Call me sanctimonious but plase don't call me Sanguin.

I think the real reason so many folks have left has as much to do with the sorry state of Champ Car as anything else. This thread is the closest thing to a pulse I have seen in quite awhile on these forums.

The truth is that I do work in the racing business and have done so for most of my life, so sorry if that offends. I also don't think I am special because of that fact, but I do think I have a pretty decent line on what is really going on, sans spin. I also have worked with or at least know most of the people in Champ Car being discussed in this thread. Again, that is my reality. If you don't believe me, okay, life goes on for both of us! That doesn't change the fact (for me at least) that I do know what I know (and I also know what I don't know).

What I post has never been me trying to pass off something that is fact without me being sure of it. When I don't know, I write that it is something I have heard, and most of what I do hear is from credible sources that are connected to what is going on in the sport. I don't post anything close to the whole story because it is not appropriate to do so but rest assured, more bad news is on the way for our favorite series. I know it sucks, but please don't shoot the messenger.

I also think it would be insane to disclose my identity since I make my living in this business. Which brings me to why I do post here. I have simply had enough of the deceptive, delusional, fanatical spin used to keep this charade going.

Champ Car long ago ceased to be a business (actually, the last time it was, it was called CART) and it is now time to face the fact it will never be. So ignore me or hate me but know that I truly believe that this farce just needs to end and the whole sport needs to move on to being a business again. A hopin' and a wishin' isn't what real racers or business people do. They deal in reality and make the best of it.

The next month to six weeks will probably deliver the truth... the question I have is, will The Amigos (or you) accept it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

garyshell, point taken about jimspeed. My apologies to both of you.

Call me sanctimonious but plase don't call me Sanguin.

I think the real reason so many folks have left has as much to do with the sorry state of Champ Car as anything else. This thread is the closest thing to a pulse I have seen in quite awhile on these forums.

The truth is that I do work in the racing business and have done so for most of my life, so sorry if that offends. I also don't think I am special because of that fact, but I do think I have a pretty decent line on what is really going on, sans spin. I also have worked with or at least know most of the people in Champ Car being discussed in this thread. Again, that is my reality. If you don't believe me, okay, life goes on for both of us! That doesn't change the fact (for me at least) that I do know what I know (and I also know what I don't know).

What I post has never been me trying to pass off something that is fact without me being sure of it. When I don't know, I write that it is something I have heard, and most of what I do hear is from credible sources that are connected to what is going on in the sport. I don't post anything close to the whole story because it is not appropriate to do so but rest assured, more bad news is on the way for our favorite series. I know it sucks, but please don't shoot the messenger.

I also think it would be insane to disclose my identity since I make my living in this business. Which brings me to why I do post here. I have simply had enough of the deceptive, delusional, fanatical spin used to keep this charade going.

Champ Car long ago ceased to be a business (actually, the last time it was, it was called CART) and it is now time to face the fact it will never be. So ignore me or hate me but know that I truly believe that this farce just needs to end and the whole sport needs to move on to being a business again. A hopin' and a wishin' isn't what real racers or business people do. They deal in reality and make the best of it.

The next month to six weeks will probably deliver the truth... the question I have is, will The Amigos (or you) accept it?

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I understand where you are coming from. I have busted my ass to make a name for myself in Champ Car and IRL, the last thing I need is some jaded poster contacting someone and coming up with some B.S. that could cost me a contract or opportuniy. I made that mistake once before, and I was beyonf ***** off about it. So never again will I give up my identity unless I choose to in private.

The constant Champ Car spin doctoring in the face of harsh reality reminds me of two wonderful comedy bits by Monty Python:

The Black Knight Fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxL11RIEb5Q

The Parrot Sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTSAFcLXqYY

I can imagine The Kevster as The Black Knight and a certain poster here as the pet shop owner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

The next month to six weeks will probably deliver the truth... the question I have is, will The Amigos (or you) accept it?

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Interesting time frame, any reason ?

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Originally Posted by seppefan

Interesting time frame, any reason ?

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The season is over in 4 weeks.

All "skidding" aside :) , those of us who have been on the inside and are no longer, like myself, really wanted to believe that the Amigos would live up to their expectations and sadly, that doesn't always happen in any business. From my perspective, PG is responsible for a lot on my own anger/frustration as he lead a lot of KK's initial thought process towards the elusive 5 year plan and couldn't have been more wrong. He also bullied, intimidated and just plain misrepresented so many things...and this was the end for me. As I read the boards now, which is my only real connection other than random conversations with old friends/drivers, I feel partly the solace of "what goes around, comes around", but when I think of all the hard working team crew members and those still stuck to a grain of hope, I feel bad that I can simply walk away from the computer and move on. For the benefit of the hard working souls out there still believing in KK/GF and even PG, I would hope that they can at least be honest with these peolpe when it's finally determined that the plug has to be pulled.

I cannot help but notice some "outside" factors that must be contributing to the problems of Champcar.

1. The Ferrari deal for A1-GP - all of the sudden it appears as though this series has a future that looks a lot like the future they are talking bout for Champcar.....

2. Drivers to NASCAR - this has been talked about alot and it should be - the exodous of open wheelers to NASCAR is epedemic and it is undermining what little cedibility the sport of AOWR has left.....

Take those two factors (among many others) and throw in the complete failure of Champcar to do much of anything right this year and I think what is next is - well nothing....

I would also like to add that if KK and GF want to salvage any of thier investment this is a good time to sell off their good races. Another season of one debacle after another from Champcar is only going to erode the value of events such as Long Beach, Toronto, Cleveland, and Surfers.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Lets get a few things straight. Jimispeed has hardly been one of the kool aide drinkers here. And yes a lot of folks have left, many because of self sanctimonious comments like: "We are the sum total of the handful of people left who still care about this once great series." Since when do the few self proclaimed "insiders" here have some sort of monopoly on caring about Champ Car?

Gary

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That's what I hear from CC fans about this forum.

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Originally Posted by Chris R

I would also like to add that if KK and GF want to salvage any of thier investment this is a good time to sell off their good races.

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They have more assets than just good races. The schedule can be fixed, let other series try to be successful on their own.

This is what is up on Autoracing1.com today under the news item about The Queensland government’s positive relationship with IMG in the face of negative rumors:

“[Editor's Note: It's interesting that the press release never made mention of Champ Car, just that the event would continue. Hmmm......given all the rumors of Champ Car's collapse one would have thought they would have gone out of their way to mention Champ Car at least once. The event is called the 'Indy' 300 so we suppose they could easily bring in the IRL IndyCar series and continue like nothing happened.]”

This appeared yesterday and supports what I am hearing from someone I know who is close to the situation:

“Champ Car to lose key sponsor UPDATE #6 We continue to hear that with CDW gone after this year, the RuSPORT Champ Car team will also fold unless a replacement sponsor can be found fast.”

Beyond those issues and based upon what I am hearing, my guess is that “what happens next” will involve news about the following:

1) China not happening
2) Vegas not happening
3) Another team going away
4) Another 2007 event (or two) not happening in 2008 due to financial concerns

I don’t make this stuff up and it all comes from credible sources. It also does not make me happy but I have come to accept that the only real news I can expect these days about Champ Car in 2008 will probably be bad news.

I'll wait for the schedule and the 60 days. ;)

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Originally Posted by sanguin

I'll wait for the schedule and the 60 days. ;)

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Sounds like it might not take 60 days after all

"The schedule can be fixed?"

How? With what? It's gone the wrong direction from Day #1.

I am a long time fan who has given OWRS the benefit of the doubt from Day 1. I thought they could do it, I beleived they could do it. Perhaps, most importantly, I thought they were the better choice for AOWR to move forward.

They have lost all credibility with me. Since I started out pretty much as close to a diehard fans as you get without it affecting my social acceptability to the general populace, I would argue that when they lose credibility with people like me - all hope is lost....

My point is, what can they fix? Who is left to support them? They have lost all credibility in terms of scheduling. They have lost sponsor credibility. They have lost drivers.

as a small business owner (way smaller than can do anything to support Champcar) I have to ask the question - "Would I enter into a business agreement with these guys?" The answer is an emphatic "NO!" I could not afford to tie myself to something that is perpetually not working right nad I could not afford to tie my livlihood an the livlihood of my employees to it.

That being said - I see no practical way they can fix the schedule short of shelling out hundreds of millions of their own dollars to make things right.... If these guys are really decent businessmen - they would not do that.

The events this year were well attended and the remaining 2 will be also.Over 300k at Surfers. There are solid venues and events already secured. I'm optimistic about LS now and LB should be as successful as always. These forums are a small fraction of the paying fan base.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

I'll wait for the schedule and the 60 days. ;)

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Me too mate! I can't wait to read how you spin it when it comes out. From what I am hearing it will require the world's greatest illusionists to make Champ Car look legit in the face what races are left when your cherished 2008 mini schedule is announced.

But, as you well know, there may still be some Eurosucker out there who doesn't read the motorsports news so you gotta keep the Farce Shields up in the hope this poor soul will fall for the blustering egobable that passes as Champ Car's five year plan.

The Champ Car G5 Airfarce is also a nice tool in sucking in the unsuspecting so I imagine that is what you and your pals are up to as we speak. Airfarce 1 is probably spooling up as we speak for one last desperate flight around the globe in search of the elusive promoter willing to lose millions (name your currency) just to keep the Amigos in the game and FerrariF1's and Sanguin's arguments alive.

My guess is that someone with a big ego and a lot of money (who doesn't speak English) is the next "mark" in the ever-shifting con game that the CCWS has become.

How did it all come to this? Why is there anyone still left who still believes in the unbelievable? The answer, my friends, exists somewhere between a place in our hearts called hope and a place called fear. I would put my money on the latter.

Perhaps the following will help those who are still in denial:

In her 1969 book, On Death and Dying, Swiss-born psychiatrist Elizabeth Kubler-Ross outlined the five stages of grief of someone who is dying:

1) Denial and isolation: "This is not happening to me."

2) Anger: "How dare God do this to me."

3) Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my son graduate."

4) Depression: "I can't bear to face going through this, putting my family through this."

5) Acceptance: "I'm ready, I don't want to struggle anymore.

So, which stage are you at when it comes to Champ Car? I have progressed to stage 5 after experiencing the full agony of the prior four stages. My guess is that some we know and love will forever be stuck at stage 1.

I think (don't be angry at me) that the best desision is to sell it to TG. For the good of AOWR and i ngeneral. In that way we will have a 18-20 event IRL with probably at least 26 drivers (and all the main events in Toronto, RA, LS...) Who likes ovals - will watch ovals, who dislikes them - just don't care so much watching them (but EVERYBODY will watch Indy500). That is quite enough, at least for me, i don't care that TG is the boss. What matters that TG will be the boss? He IS the boss of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway (and IRL) (or i'm wrong?).

A current Dallaras are a little bit ugly - so what? They can be redesigned in a .... let's say not exactly a month, but in less than a year.

Of course CCWS may go on, but they will not be a pinnacle of racing in NA (together with IRL).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

Me too mate! I can't wait to read how you spin it when it comes out. From what I am hearing it will require the world's greatest illusionists to make Champ Car look legit in the face what races are left when your cherished 2008 mini schedule is announced.

But, as you well know, there may still be some Eurosucker out there who doesn't read the motorsports news so you gotta keep the Farce Shields up in the hope this poor soul will fall for the blustering egobable that passes as Champ Car's five year plan.

The Champ Car G5 Airfarce is also a nice tool in sucking in the unsuspecting so I imagine that is what you and your pals are up to as we speak. Airfarce 1 is probably spooling up as we speak for one last desperate flight around the globe in search of the elusive promoter willing to lose millions (name your currency) just to keep the Amigos in the game and FerrariF1's and Sanguin's arguments alive.

My guess is that someone with a big ego and a lot of money (who doesn't speak English) is the next "mark" in the ever-shifting con game that the CCWS has become.

How did it all come to this? Why is there anyone still left who still believes in the unbelievable? The answer, my friends, exists somewhere between a place in our hearts called hope and a place called fear. I would put my money on the latter.

Perhaps the following will help those who are still in denial:

In her 1969 book, On Death and Dying, Swiss-born psychiatrist Elizabeth Kubler-Ross outlined the five stages of grief of someone who is dying:

1) Denial and isolation: "This is not happening to me."

2) Anger: "How dare God do this to me."

3) Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my son graduate."

4) Depression: "I can't bear to face going through this, putting my family through this."

5) Acceptance: "I'm ready, I don't want to struggle anymore.

So, which stage are you at when it comes to Champ Car? I have progressed to stage 5 after experiencing the full agony of the prior four stages. My guess is that some we know and love will forever be stuck at stage 1.

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From looking at your previous posts, it's hard to find anything positive you have ever said about the Champcar World Series..... I'm dissapointed about how Champcar played out this year, but in the same breath, there were many great moments, very competitive racing and some beautiful new road courses!!


Put away the voodoo doll!!


Champcar is going to go wherever they go no matter how we try to color it!! Changes must be made!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

garyshell, point taken about jimspeed. My apologies to both of you.

Call me sanctimonious but plase don't call me Sanguin.

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Trust me I would NEVER do that. :D

Look, my reply was NOT intended to be directed at you. It was to state that there have been a lot of FANS driven away here because the self claimed insiders have pretty much told them to "sit down, shut up and listen to me because I am an insider". And then they refuse to backup the insider assertion. I understand that they are reluctant to make their names or true status known. But they also need to understand that on the internet, no one can be trusted to be who they say they are, and that playing that "insider" card doesn't REALLY lend any more credibility. If anything it REMOVES some.

I've thought of packing it here myself. But where would I go the "cff fanatics" forum. No thanks. And, I admit it, I like hearing this talk from the "insiders" and providing the occasional tweak to them to remind them they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us!

But what REALLY set me off was this: "We are the sum total of the handful of people left who still care about this once great series." As if some clique of folks here were the ONLY ones who gave a damn and the rest of us were just interlopers.

Rereading that comment in context and subsequent postings from you, I am inclined to think that your intent with it and my perception were not the same thing.

gary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

That's what I hear from CC fans about this forum.

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Whoa! Don't drag ME into your fantasy world. I totally disassociate any comments I have made with, in any way shape or form, contributing to furthering the "opinions" you spew here.

Gary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Whoa! Don't drag ME into your fantasy world. I totally disassociate any comments I have made with, in any way shape or form, contributing to furthering the "opinions" you spew here.

Gary

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I don't agree with everything you post either, but about this subject, I've heard the same from other CC fans.

Below is some insight into the developing situation in Australia and Kalkhoven's focus on Europe:

from goldcoast.com.au

V8s lining up for more Indy cash

13 Oct 07

"V8 Supercars want a greater slice of the Indy financial pie as behind-the-scenes drama dominates talk on the eve of the major Surfers Paradise motorsport event."

V8s boss Tony Cochrane is in talks with the State Government to finalise next year's contract, and The Bulletin understands he is seeking a greater slice of the $12 million the Government pours into the event each year.

There has also been speculation over the International Management Group's continuing role with Indy, after The Bulletin was told the group and State Government were at loggerheads over a number of issues, including IMG's profit take from the event.

Late yesterday, Lexmark Indy 300 chairman Terry Mackenroth released a statement saying that letters of intent had been drafted between IMG and the Queensland Government for a joint partnership through to 2013.

"A deal has been done," he said. "I cannot understand where all the current rumour and speculation has been circulated from and take offence to such accusations of instability in regards to Australia's No 1 motorsport spectacular.

"Our current agreement will take us through to the 2008 event and we expect to cement a formal arrangement between the Queensland Government and our event partners IMG to take us through another five-year contractual period up to and inclusive of the 2013 event."

It is understood the Champ Car sanction fee and transport costs for Surfers Paradise are close to $6 million, while the V8s get a third of that in fees and TV rights.

The high-stakes game is being played out between the Indy board and V8 board, of which Mr Cochrane is chairman.

Mr Cochrane recently stitched up a lucrative deal with the Queensland Government to run a V8 race in Townsville.

He is arguing that the V8s should be given equal financial billing with the Champ Cars, saying he had independent research showing more people came to Surfers Paradise for the V8s than the Champ Cars.

The argy bargy over next year's Queensland Government deal with the V8s coincides with a massive planned revamp of the Indy series.

For the first time, Champ Car chairman Kevin Kalkhoven will not be at Surfers Paradise for next weekend's race, instead opting for a series of meetings in Europe with promoters.

There is speculation that the US-based series will broaden its global reach next year, taking in extra European cities, after the failure of China and Korea.

Mr Kalkhoven, the Aussie billionaire running the Champ Car series, has always declared Surfers Paradise the series' marque event.

Team Australia owner Craig Gore said the attractiveness of Indy was its international flavour, combined with the best V8 drivers in the country.

"I think that's a potent mix and to tamper with that would be crazy," he said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

Below is some insight into the developing situation in Australia and Kalkhoven's focus on Europe:

from goldcoast.com.au

V8s lining up for more Indy cash

13 Oct 07

"V8 Supercars want a greater slice of the Indy financial pie as behind-the-scenes drama dominates talk on the eve of the major Surfers Paradise motorsport event."

V8s boss Tony Cochrane is in talks with the State Government to finalise next year's contract, and The Bulletin understands he is seeking a greater slice of the $12 million the Government pours into the event each year.

There has also been speculation over the International Management Group's continuing role with Indy, after The Bulletin was told the group and State Government were at loggerheads over a number of issues, including IMG's profit take from the event.

Late yesterday, Lexmark Indy 300 chairman Terry Mackenroth released a statement saying that letters of intent had been drafted between IMG and the Queensland Government for a joint partnership through to 2013.

"A deal has been done," he said. "I cannot understand where all the current rumour and speculation has been circulated from and take offence to such accusations of instability in regards to Australia's No 1 motorsport spectacular.

"Our current agreement will take us through to the 2008 event and we expect to cement a formal arrangement between the Queensland Government and our event partners IMG to take us through another five-year contractual period up to and inclusive of the 2013 event."

It is understood the Champ Car sanction fee and transport costs for Surfers Paradise are close to $6 million, while the V8s get a third of that in fees and TV rights.

The high-stakes game is being played out between the Indy board and V8 board, of which Mr Cochrane is chairman.

Mr Cochrane recently stitched up a lucrative deal with the Queensland Government to run a V8 race in Townsville.

He is arguing that the V8s should be given equal financial billing with the Champ Cars, saying he had independent research showing more people came to Surfers Paradise for the V8s than the Champ Cars.

The argy bargy over next year's Queensland Government deal with the V8s coincides with a massive planned revamp of the Indy series.

For the first time, Champ Car chairman Kevin Kalkhoven will not be at Surfers Paradise for next weekend's race, instead opting for a series of meetings in Europe with promoters.

There is speculation that the US-based series will broaden its global reach next year, taking in extra European cities, after the failure of China and Korea.

Mr Kalkhoven, the Aussie billionaire running the Champ Car series, has always declared Surfers Paradise the series' marque event.

Team Australia owner Craig Gore said the attractiveness of Indy was its international flavour, combined with the best V8 drivers in the country.

"I think that's a potent mix and to tamper with that would be crazy," he said.

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Excuse me, but can someone please tell me what in the heck KK is thinking!!! Not attending the most successful race in his own backyard because he has meetings with promoters!?! If you had a G5 and 250,000 coming to your own back yard, wouldn't you fly all of the bloody promoters in, wine and dine them and show them how you can actually do a race right? To me, this says that the Ferrari A1 deal has him scared and like some others, A1 will likely replace CCWS in Surfers...is this his conceding to this fact as Cochrane is now coming out swinging when he was supposedly a potential partner? I think the wagons are getting circled and KK is making a last ditch effort...but IMO, this is unbelievable

errggg more ego boosting European races- already in a very crowded market- F1, GP2, F3, Renault World Series, A1 GP, International Formula Masters etc- CCWS offers nothing that those series don't already provide- and those like RWS do it so much better- full grids, decent amount of sponsors and the might of Renault supporting it- even A1GP- long derided on this website has now signed a major deal with Ferarri- for engines and chassis....which one looks more likely to survive- the one with the Ferrari deal or the one without??

and CCWS is now arguing over money at Surfers Paradise- well I'm quite sure that Surfers would be a huge hit without the Champ Cars- the V8 series has packed grids and huge track attendance at every race it runs- so why does Surfers really need CCWS at all??

fan-veteran I totally agree with you- pull the plug on this farce, roll up the best races into the IRL, redesign the Dallara a bit and go racing- I loved CART- best racing in the world, but CCWS is just p*****g all over the legacy of that once great series and it should stop

Agree, heelntoe. Cochrane's been trying snatch more of that event for years and it's CC's biggest paycheck. Maybe KK has just given up on it because he's certainly not protecting his interests there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimispeed

From looking at your previous posts, it's hard to find anything positive you have ever said about the Champcar World Series..... I'm dissapointed about how Champcar played out this year, but in the same breath, there were many great moments, very competitive racing and some beautiful new road courses!!

Put away the voodoo doll!!

Champcar is going to go wherever they go no matter how we try to color it!! Changes must be made!!!

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Jimispeed, I spent much of my professional life saying and doing positive things regarding Champ Car. As as for this year, I agree that there have been some bright spots (St. Jovite in particular), many good races and several interesting new stars in the making. As much as people bash Sebastian, he is my hero and his time in CCWS will long be remembered as will his and N/H/(L)'s fourth consecutive championship. All that aside, the sad truth is that the promise the season held has turned sour. I agree with you that "Champcar is going to go wherever they go no matter how we try to color it!! Changes must be made!!!" but I am not sure that is a good thing or that those changes will come soon enough. As for my voodoo doll, it looks an awful lot like a mini-Paulie G-String wearing a Motorock T-Shirt and a Hustler Clubs cap. I keep it on the same shelf as my God-awful Gene Simmons, Kiss action figure voodoo doll.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

As much as people bash Sebastian, he is my hero

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... and I always screw up the spelling of his name: Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien. Sebastien... Oh, to hell with it, Seabass works for me.

CC's contract with the government for the Surfer's race runs through 2008. The race is already secured for next year and they are working on an extension and I'm sure KK has this covered. The money Champ Car gets covers the sanction fee and transport costs.

The financial demands Cochrane is making are with the government and has nothing to do with CC. They have their own contract. We'll see what they do. I would like to see TC's evidence of all V8 fans. Regardless, I do not think CC's participation will be changed.

A1GP is a winter series and does compete with CC. I also do not believe they pose any threat to CC's european events. I also do not think KK or anyone is afraid of them.

There is no reason for the owners of CC to sell anything to TG. Let him make his series successful on his own.

IMO.

"I'm sure KK has this covered." Huh? Arguably, the best attended race in the series in his home country and KK isn't going to show up because he "has it covered?" Gimme a break.

The financial demands Cochrane is making is with the partnership between the Queensland government and IMG, which funds and promotes the weekend, although IMG and the Queensland government have signed just a "letter of intent" to continue the partnership, according to the Bulletin.

A1GP just got a deal for Ferrari engines and support. Whether KK is afraid of them or not doesn't matter. The financial demands of A1GP may be as such that it may well be able to undercut CC's $6 million deal with Surfers. An outfit like IMG, headquartered in Cleveland and a former CART promoter in Detroit and Cleveland, would understand CC's situation much better than the Cleveland government. Cochrane has griped every year for more money down there. He may well have something in his wheelbarrow this time.

As far as TG buying anything, I think you're right. IMO, he hasn't shown any interest in buying anything.

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Originally Posted by indycool

"I'm sure KK has this covered." Huh? Arguably, the best attended race in the series in his home country and KK isn't going to show up because he "has it covered?" Gimme a break.

The financial demands Cochrane is making is with the partnership between the Queensland government and IMG, which funds and promotes the weekend, although IMG and the Queensland government have signed just a "letter of intent" to continue the partnership, according to the Bulletin.

A1GP just got a deal for Ferrari engines and support. Whether KK is afraid of them or not doesn't matter. The financial demands of A1GP may be as such that it may well be able to undercut CC's $6 million deal with Surfers. An outfit like IMG, headquartered in Cleveland and a former CART promoter in Detroit and Cleveland, would understand CC's situation much better than the Cleveland government. Cochrane has griped every year for more money down there. He may well have something in his wheelbarrow this time.

As far as TG buying anything, I think you're right. IMO, he hasn't shown any interest in buying anything.

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IMG is pressing for more money than KK can afford to lose...and IMO, A1GP will have it shortly...am waiting for confirmation from my colleagues at IMG, but it's a lot to do with CCWS being able to guarantee series performance which is not likely at this time.

I said "Cleveland government" above and meant "Queensland government." My bad.

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Originally Posted by heelntoe

IMG is pressing for more money than KK can afford to lose...and IMO, A1GP will have it shortly...am waiting for confirmation from my colleagues at IMG, but it's a lot to do with CCWS being able to guarantee series performance which is not likely at this time.

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IMG is pressing for more money? Yes there seems to be a question about how much profit IMG will get from the Indy race. The letter of intent is a contract between the government and IMG for their partnership. What does that have to do with CC? CC has a contract through 2008.

I do not think A1GP is in the running for Surfer's ,they have their own set of problems.

But I do find this all very entertaining. nice spin.

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

pits4me,

What do you think will happen next with Champ Car, particularly in 2008, given the difficulty in attracting sponsorship in the NAFTA markets?

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Focus more on foreign venues, drivers, sponsors and team principles. We can already see companies rationalizing their sponsor dollars, even in NASCAR.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Agree, heelntoe. Cochrane's been trying snatch more of that event for years and it's CC's biggest paycheck. Maybe KK has just given up on it because he's certainly not protecting his interests there.

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That's what you think. You've had Champ Car headed to the morgue since day one. Amazing how those Pook numbers keep going up. Now its $100 million...... Talk about rubbing salt into a papercut.

sanguin, some basics:

1. IMG and the Queensland government have a partnership.
2. Presumably, CC has a contract WITH that partnership.
3. IF the partners decide something needs to happen, then the partners deal with it.
4. If the partners don't agree and their "letter of intent" disappears, they separate and bankrupt out the partnership, what is CC's contract worth?

Did you ever hear about San Jose?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indycool

sanguin, some basics:

1. IMG and the Queensland government have a partnership.
2. Presumably, CC has a contract WITH that partnership.
3. IF the partners decide something needs to happen, then the partners deal with it.
4. If the partners don't agree and their "letter of intent" disappears, they separate and bankrupt out the partnership, what is CC's contract worth?

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1. IMG and Queensland Government have a partnership through 2008
2. IMG and Queensland Government have a letter of intent to continue that partnership through 2013.
3. CC has a contract through 2008.
4. Queensland Government wants to secure the Indy race until 2011 with CC.

Sorry, the race will happen and I also think it will be extended with CC.