And Passats video https://youtu.be/LNKhFjcOFk4?si=pSABNWpnZA1KVVvhQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
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And Passats video https://youtu.be/LNKhFjcOFk4?si=pSABNWpnZA1KVVvhQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Yep. I know that the Norwegian word "skitt" is used for many things, like if something is dusty, dirty etc. "skitt" is the word used. If it you are describing something poor and "sad", you can use "skitt" in that sentence without issues. If something is scrap/junk, it is "skitt". If you don't clean the "skitt" is getting bigger, if you are saying "oh well", you can easily say "skitt au". If something isn't important "skitt, la gå" is often used etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Mary
Skitt is pronounced exactly like "sh*t".
It's even used in sentences to wish good luck...
I know that one of the more casual words in Norwegian, with 0.0% levels of swearing, is one of the bad words. So, I usually are able to avoid using it. But put a mic in to my car after pushing hard, or been in a massive fight in a race on a circuit, before I've even had time to calm down... it is very likely I would blurt out a "sh*t" or two.
But, everyone should probably be as perfect and clean spoken in several languages as you are I guess?
Passats must shoot everything using daylight white balance, so they capture the changing light throughout the day. I like this better than the textbook approach of adjusting the camera to equalise the colour all the time, it's so much more atmospheric.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Well, the Fourmaux stuff made me annoyed enough to finally create an account here after years of lurking in the event threads.
Evening, everyone.
To the issue at hand: Maybe instead of chasing brownie points for performative puritanism, MBS & Co. should focus on making the series under their remit objectively better. Given how woefully they have failed at that with WRC – despite that being one of the more explicit talking points of his and Reid‘s campaign – I hope the voting members let someone else give it a go next time.
Given the larger realities at play in FIA politics, though, I know it‘s not going to happen unless Verstappen quits F1 over the swearing ban or something equally ridiculous derails the reelection bid.
On the rally: Genuinely floored by Elfyn for the first time in a long time. Overcame adversity this morning and was great throughout the event, although I would‘ve wanted Taka to win a bit more. Rovanperä will likely come around, although if he struggles on gravel as well the speed of his adaption to the tyres will likely decide the strength of his title challenge.
The Hyundais were… underwhelming overall. Neuville had a mostly clean event and finished as top Hyundai, but his result and points total may have been flattered by Tänak‘s issues and, once again, underwhelming Power Stage. Credit for what was still quite a good performance, though – he was there when it counted the most.
Tänak likely could‘ve won on speed and have had more stage wins on Saturday. That doesn’t detract from the fact that his PS performance was weak, as mentioned, given that the stage was clearly not getting slower, as evidenced by the three guys behind him. Dropping important points on Sunday has become a theme for him over the last months. I am unsure if there were aftereffects of the engine situation – going off the telemetry from the broadcast, top speed wasn’t an issue at least. Let’s see if we are allowed to know more over the next few days.
Fourmaux was the architect of his own downfall. He had many moments on the Monte, small and big, while pushing the car to and perhaps over the maximum. Now a stupid mistake and another moment as a reaction to that caught up to him. He‘s clearly adapted well to the Hyundai and the Hankooks, but may still require a lesson or two in risk management before he‘s championship-ready.
The Fords were also there, I guess. McErlean is growing on me, he showed quite competitive speed and was already a match for Munster. Definitely a more promising event than his Monte in terms of raw performance. Sesks was about where I would‘ve expected him to be. Shame that the guy who looks like the quickest man to drive a Puma this year will only be on half the rallies.
Finally, I‘m allowing myself a bit of national pride seeing that Claire Schönborn won the ticket for the full Junior WRC season. Let‘s see if it leads anywhere, but it‘s a nice story for German rallying at the World Championship level. There are few enough of those going around as it is.
Looking ahead, the Hyundai drivers already need a massively positive event in Kenya to stay in touch with Evans. Based on the previous reliability of the car, that seems unlikely to happen, although Evans also has unfortunate incidents in his Safari past. Predicting this rally is near impossible, anyways, maybe even the Toyotas will finally show some weaknesses.
First off, welcome to the forum, nice to have a new member, regarding Kenya, Toyota might possibly fill in the ranks with Ogier as it’s a place he loves. In any case, I certainly wouldn’t bet against them, especially if Hyundai are reluctant to have a 4th car this year; with already being 48 points behind and a driver that needs to realise that to finish first (or 3rd for that matter) first you must finish. Taken all that into account while also having Estonia back as a stronghold for Toyota, I seriously doubt Hyundai will be able to mount a proper challenge, especially with Ott not being as competitive as he was during his Toyota years…Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStrike
Just as a reference, this time last year, Hyundai won 2/2 events…
I know we said this in the other thread already but the only ones I’d mute (given the option) are the commentators…Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
For €30,000 fine and in professional circumstances, yes, I would be clean spoken in the language I am fluent enough to understand. How many of you swear in professional circumstances? None, else tell me what happened. I know my company has codes of conduct including this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrvold
Fourmaux had 24 hours to consider his words. Not discounting that there will be emotionally charged moments in this sport, but I think that excuse is overstated. There are 60 seconds between the stop line and speaking. 30 seconds between spotting the camera and speaking. 10 seconds between the reporter with microphone opening the door and speaking. There is now a rule in place, perhaps the co-driver can take on a role of coaching the driver as a professional exercise that happens 20 times per rally.
I don't want to make this a point but more of an open question, is it an English as a second language problem? I don't remember Elfyn Evans swearing or petulantly protesting being silenced. Did Craig Breen, Gus Greensmith?
Someone previously said that WRC need to build the characters. Well we didn't need to wait long for another non-sense fine from FIA. How the characters will be build if soon no one would want to talk on camera at all. Basicaly anything they do is wrong. It's just a lottery at each event who will win "the big prize" from FIA.
What is actualy purpose of FIA again? Safety? Running few championships? Turning money? Screwing everything up? Oh right, put Saudi Arabia on every series... But it's not just here. F1 have big issues also and it's the biggest series they run (they lick their fingers the most from that championship). What if they actualy do their job and not destroy everything and ACTUALY make everything, I mean everything that no one will die from their championships.
I previously said the biggest villain and the cause for current form in which the WRC is in, are they, the FIA. I know, that probably WRC would not exist if not by them. But I think that WRC world is so big (despite hanging on thin line to kill itself), that even if FIA wouldn't be around or be "the big boss", it could actualy survive on it's own. Also believe that some other stakeholders would eventualy came around and bought it.
It's a joke.
I genuinely think you should start some personal coaching if you're not already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Mary
Going from full of adrenaline to calm as a cucumber and in full control in 90-ish seconds (while also looking for times and stuff), and being perfect in several languages in that time. You are sitting on something you can make great money on.
I mean, you can at times see the drivers physically shaking during end of stage interviews, and still, somehow manage to make a relatively articulated answer in a language they are far from mastering. Then a (in relative terms, small) slip-up is a massive fine... Then it is better to just don't do any end of stage interviews.
And obviously it is a "English as a second language "problem"". It is much easier to steer it in the mother tongue than in a secondary or third language.
Lastly, "all live" is even broadcasted with a delay, if it such an issue, have a bleep ready.
Evans and the others were raised speaking English, they know that saying f@ck is a no no for your culture, and can express things in other ways. When you ask Fourmaux or any other driver that doesn't speak English as 1st language, you should consider that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Mary
they are not as fluent in English and might struggle to express things + in English there's this small f word that you can insert at basically any point of a sentence to express big frustration or anger (not all languages work like that, in some languages you'd need to go out of your way to insert swear words in certain sentences) + some cultures just don't care as much about swear words as English speaking people.
It's the duality of having rap songs or rappers that swear twice every second, but then any swear word in more professional settings are taboos, which is not something that happens in every country.
Fourmaux signed a form to acknowledge he understood the requirements.... there's no excuse for him not knowing the strongest, most prolific word.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
I remember a user called NOT from this forum who was voted off for being strong worded and abusive in tone, so there is a line of standards here on average which many adhere to. They had the same lack of class that affects one user active now on this subject in this thread, who commented that throwing in the odd 'n word' is acceptable. I usually ignore if I disagree with somebody where there is no discussion to be had, but that is truly despicable. I don't know if they are a native English speaker or not; I can pass it if not using the explanation you gave; but if so, I can only assume they are still a young boy with no life experience or adult development. That is not how I would like anybody of any age or culture to behave, it's certainly not a way to develop characters in WRC.
Welcome to the forum. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStrike
I think you're asking too much to Fourmaux or any other driver that knows English as a secondary language, to answer questions in English, right after driving a stage (ok, not this case, but it's when the majority of this accidents happen), to express problems and frustration while also adapting to the culture tied to the language, that treats swear words as filler words or as crimes against humanity, depending on the occasion - at least that's my perception of English language, using a hyperbole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Mary
Ok, if he said "I f@kin hate this f@kin stage because my f@kin car is sh!t" then well... I'm sure most would say "What's wrong with this guy" and it becomes just too much.
You can if the only problem is the gasket & you can do it within the service time (and any road penalty you're prepared to take). If the cyliner head or block is distorted then you just have to live with the problem or retire the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliverk
Been a long time lurker of the forums, never really been knowledgeable enough to comment on the intricacies of WRC/Rally but today is the day I made an account, primarily to comment on the swearing issue in WRC w/ FIA.
[QUOTE=Mary Mary;1359990]For €30,000 fine and in professional circumstances, yes, I would be clean spoken in the language I am fluent enough to understand. How many of you swear in professional circumstances? None, else tell me what happened. I know my company has codes of conduct including this topic.
Light swearing is tolerated at most workplaces. If you ever attend a job site you know every second word is F this, F that.
As some other commenters mentioned, you are shoving a microphone in their face after driving a million dollar car at excess of 120kmph around tight bends on unforgiving roads/tracks. I don't think its reasonable to expect these drivers to be formal in any real capacity, they are in an extremely high stress environment and a microphone in your face 30 seconds after a stage would be frustrating, especially if you preformed bad.
The thing that separates entertaining players/drivers/competitors in sports is the story-lines and character. We want the raw emotions to come out, the frustration, the happiness, the stress. That all adds immense value to the sport in my opinion.
I think comparing Rally Drivers to office workplace jobs is ludicrous and undermines the effort, dedication and realness of the sport.
There is so much red tape around the post-stage interviews, the drivers can't now swear, the drivers can't really talk about the issues/problems with their cars, they can only really same the same old meaningless lines at the end of every stage. It's boring. The only way you are going to get good post race interviews is if you let them be a little more free flowing (and ask better questions).
I completely agree rules need to exist, but its not like Fourmaux was raging and swearing his face off. He didn't say anything negative about anyone or anything. He was just frustrated and said a single swearword. The use in moderation is key here. F&ck is
A single swear word over the course of a 15+ hour production is a pretty low swear count. We don't need to conform to the lowest common denominator, there aren't many (if any) five year olds watching this and I'm sure they learn these words and see worse things everyday, be it at school or by the iPad their parent shoves in front of them. I just think we're all adults at the end of the day and making everything so child-friendly harms motorsport.
I think a lot of people frustration comes from the fact that WRC feels so mismanaged at times and the sport is dying, primarily at the dumb rulings implemented by the FIA and the "influence" aka control by the hands of Saudi oil money and swearing penalties should be at the very bottom of the list of things needed to fix before this sport recovers. I find it ironic we are arguing about a single F word in 2025 when we should be focusing on the Saudi influcnce and human rights violations the Saudi government does on the daily and sport washes it under the rug!
If we really really need to police swearing, delay the post interviews by 10 seconds and have a beeper. Not that bloody hard. I honestly think if you are losing your mind over a single F word, then you need to grow up imo.
People, lets discuss rally. Using swearing words in public is low culture, do not defend it. Best athletes in the world has social responsibility. That is it; FiA is correct to govern it. Fine is too harsh. That is it. Can you anything about it? No.
About rally:
-Evans - this is his year; i assume he had smth personal with those HYs. I am rooting for Evans to become WDC this year.
Katsuta - no surprise, he loves snow (strange, right?); expect good result even in Kenya.
Kalle - well, it was expected, will take some time to get it straight.
Hyundai: consider these flops as farewell tour. I said before Rally that history shows H are never successful with new/upgraded car at once. Obviously, flows in organization how the things are managed. But do not write them off - they will pull it together, about the Portugal, then stage a big come back, but ...this is Evans year.
Formaux: as all of you noted, he used his lady luck favors in Monte; he is not 22 any more, some common sense would have to used.
Sesks - consistent, fast, good fight with Pajari, will be interesting how he develops going forward. Ford is clearly not the most developed car in the field, might be on backfoot in fast sections - what we saw on Sunday morning - fast sections, losing time to Pajari, as more narrow and technical - he got back a lot of seconds. That was the most impressive. I expect Rally Estonia as another big performance of him.
McErlean - read my previous posts; this guy knows how to drive fast and steady. Good job by Irish Rally Academy.
At first, drivers try to win stages. When they can do that reliably, they try to win rallies. And when they can do that, they focus to winning chamionships.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Fourmaux still has to win his first rally, he's not yet a driver who will be able to focus on the long run.
After the first two rallies I got immediate Duval wibes about Fourmaux.
Getting from MSport to top team, immediately having speed to challenge teammates on stage times....and not knowing how to moderate the speed.
Strong team leadership and advisory needed.
I’m not so sure it’s about defending swearing. It’s more to do with the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, and about letting drivers personalities shine through instead of listening to a corporate robot interviewed at the end of stage. It is about passion.
A couple points raised so far. How many people swear in their professional setting? Well, on a building site everyone. Is it a cultural thing? Maybe, I did a job recently and had to speak to a female director of the building company. She asked a question, I gave her my answer, and she replied with the word f**k. She is Italian, so if that had a bearing (I had not met her and this was my first phone conversation with her so we’re not familiar with each other)
Another point, the things that happened years ago had greater significance and consequences years ago but no one cared. I have been watching old rallies on YouTube recently. Last night there were two things in one video that made me laugh. One, a Marshall dragging a man with his trousers around his ankles and his bare arse hanging out away from the road in a stage. The commentator just remarked “there’s one person who wishes he was up a tree”
The second, in the same video, Tony Pond was asked if he was tired, he said “no I normally get up when I should go to bed” the commentator asked what he was going to do now and the reply was “I don’t know, go and find a couple of big girls I should think” and a big smirk spread across his face. All funny stuff, but then people were allowed to be themselves.
And lastly, this isn’t formula one. The drivers aren’t paid the sort of salaries f1 drivers are, sponsors are higher profile in f1, the fan base is mush larger and the age demographic of the fan base is younger. You are much more likely to have a 10 year old watching f1 than you are watching a rally. It just isn’t as evocative any more. F1 never has been relative to the common man but has always been popular with many different teams to cheer for. Nowadays, when people are driving around in generic white goods that have no real connection to rallying, and the only couple of teams use vehicles based on a car that your Nan would use to drive to the shops, it lacks the reach and appeal it once used to. At the height of its popularity, in this country at least, a lot of people would watch rallying on a programme like grandstand, as there wasn’t as much tech or things to do back then, kids didn’t have their heads buried in their phones or hid in their bedrooms playing Xbox.
Back then rallying was evocative. The cars used were exciting and you could go into a showroom on a Monday and buy one. Liveries where more exciting and often sponsored by tobacco and alcohol companies, and nobody really gave two f**ks if someone wound an f bomb in at an end of stage interview, and the commentary team wouldn’t feel compelled to apologise for the bad language. But this is the age we live in, free speech and all that, as long as it doesn’t cause anyone the slightest bit of offence then it’s no longer free, it’ll cost you 10,000 euros.
It is a bit off-topic from Rally Sweden, but as the discussion is here, I write it here.
First thing - I think every country has "wartime" and "peacetime" laws because the situation is different. If FIA wants to get interviews at the stage end, from a driver full of emotions and adrenaline, it should have "a wartime law". If one could make stats on how many times someone swears during a press conference in the media zone during a break, it would be a completely different situation. At the stage end, drivers are "without filters" and are answering purely as they are. That is the value and the beauty of it, it delivers emotions. The emotion can also be positive: "It was a f*cking awesome stage" - and the fine follows? With all of this, we are towards the situation do not have any meaningful interviews with a driver at the stage end.
Second, kind of oppose my previous point and agree with some previous comments here - it is a feeling the swearing word impacts if this is not your native language. Often swearing words are used as a filler or just slang-speaking. I can give examples from the Estonian language that has swearing influence from Russian swearing words from a soviet background. Youngsters may use the swearing words picked up from older-generation speech and use them with different meanings.
I'm not supporting swearing in public, but at the same time need to admit, I could not care if I'm full of adrenaline and pissed off with something. So if FIA wants to polish the interviews, it just needs to implement the beep-machine into the coverage.
Could admin move the discussion of F-word to thread I started?
I think Rally Sweden topic deserves positive thoughts about the rally. Not political discussion.
Having said that I´m certainly not against fines for using the F-word or any humiliating words whatsoever. Fine level is a secondary problem FIA needs to deal with.
I think if you revisit any rally-specific topics, it usually contains some "after-discussion" topics. Rally results are clear, it is already past - the winner is still the winner, all the emotions are cleared up, opinions on the performances said, and then there are some opened or raised topics after or during the rally that are not clear, everyone has their own opinion and it keeps the discussion going for some short period of time. At the moment I don't think it deserves its own topic, it is just an inert from Rally Sweden's situation and emotions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I´ve said what I´ve said. And stand by it.
First thing Passats should do is stop speeding up it's videos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
Hyundai Pure Uncensored Action: Rally Sweden’s Raw Moments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AKxGN1BGzs
This is a nonsense comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
yes, and then in your third paragraph have done the exact thing you have raised a complaint about and given us your own opinion on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
It happened at rally Sweden, and the fia have issued fine to the driver at the event so I don’t see the problem in discussing something that happened at the event in a thread about said event.
There have been many examples of drivers being penalised by the stewards for things on various rallies and a discussion has then commenced in that thread about it. This isn’t really that different.
Actually no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm75
I just stated you and others to go to other thread to discuss the F-word. Not in Rally Sweden thread. If you think "3rd paragraph" was my contribution to Rally Sweden thread, you´re completely wrong.
I would think so, and without extra cost. They have payed the entry fee for the championship anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by becher
Pictures Rally Sweden 13-16.02.2025
Shakedown, SS1, SS2, SS6, SS10, SS13 and SS18
https://samzon.kuvat.fi/kuvat/MM-Rally+Sweden+02.25/
Just look at the last year pace of Hyundai on that Sunday stage and you can see massive improvement. Powerstage is a bit funny thing, it is as boring as most of the Ypres rally with straights and junctions in 90% of the stage:P But in general, The rally itself in my eyes is great success. Stages are superb and in fantastic condition, number of spectator is increasing every year. For me it is perfect location for winter-rally. I hope it solves issues with locals and we will have even better years to come!
Stages was way better before in Värmland, these stages boring in comparison. Also there was much more spectators before. Apart from spectator sones there was wery few spectators too see. Anyway great condions and rally run påerfect. No delays or cancelled stages which is good. If they could find some more technicall roads it will be great..A little too much flatout long stretches now, and very little elevation, ups and downs, but is maybe topography of the area. also i think saturday could be longer, more km. Was a bit short this year
Yeah. Me too would like more technical and not so much flat out i 3 K´s straits.
WRC Rally Sweden 2025 pictures by Pro One Media
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00027689934933
My experience was there are more spectators in Umea than in Varmland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krigen
Red Barn Arena was packed each evening. Far more than the 'one off' SSS in Varmland.
Don't be blinded by a big crowd on Colin's Crest - that was again just a 'one off'. I was impressed by the crowds in Umea.
WRC Rally Sweden 2025 | Insane Speeds On Snow
https://youtu.be/Ym6S7J-kr5I
You are joking ? Right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend