[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

Wow, that's the worst idea I've heard in my life and betrays a very telling lack of understanding of what rally and indeed endurance motorsport is. People talk about the glory years of rally in the past - what was different, structurally, with the rallies then? Nothing (well, they were longer and even less accessible to a global audience).

Jan, I'm a media goon and I would never get behind such nonsense. These are advertising morons' fingerprints. People who look at everything as "markets" and "target audiences" and not people and events and passion. From a media perspective, when you have competition that is well presented in a clear, understandable way, in media that reaches as many people as possible, you have done your job. The appeal comes from seeing the amazing driving, landscapes, competition, endurance through adverse conditions, etc.

They don't do this to other motorsports with nearly century-long history. Tech regs and calendars are one thing. This ruins the nature of the competition. If you want a one day rally, or a one-stage rally, create your own competition. You could even run it alongside the "real" events... but then that's just a Power Stage though. If you must have "drama", the Power Stage concept is the best way to bring "drama" to the end of a multi-day rally if the result is otherwise pretty settled.

Just as an example of how incredibly stupid this system would be... Rally NZ 2010, one of the most dramatic rallies in recent years - you had 3+ guys fighting for the win on the last stage, 30km Whaanga Coast. If these idiots had their way back then, only 2 could fight for the win right? It would actually DECREASE the real drama and possibilities of the final stage in these kinds of situations, which are incidentally the moments everybody loves most about rally.

Death of the WRC.

Who actually thinks that a final day shoot out will attract more fans? That is mental talk.

We, the FIA, the teams and the promoter need to face facts. The WRC is not a popular sport and NEVER will be. Lets make do with what we have, excite the minority to the point of wetting their pants, occasionally impress the masses, and give the car makes a platform to sell some cars.

The main thing is, we, the WRC etc etc cannot sell out. If anything we need to go back to basics, where people can buy showroom cars and race them on roads they are never supposed to see. That is more romantic and enticing to a casual spectator than a sport that has adapted to modern society's needs.

Personally, I've never been to a final stage just because a driver is in a battle. I go to every stage thinking 'I can't wait to see these cars flat out'. This is what they need to sell

Or try to persuade Bernie to stop the Formula 1 race before the last lap and then do the last lap fastest and you win???!!!! How´s that?

Any thinking man worth the word would´nt for his life come up to a such stupid idea. WRC should start believe in themself. And not listen to stupid teambosses.

There was nothing wrong with rally back i the 80's and 90's, spectacular cars with spectacular drivers who even had personalities! Methinks a certain Frenchman followed by another is making the sport unpalatable to the media circus - hard to market so to speak. Also to note why are these problems only with the WRC? The ERC seems to be doing just fine and if you look at some domestic championships they are as popular now as they ever were. Somebody in the FIA needs a kick up the backside......

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Originally Posted by ToughMac

There was nothing wrong with rally back i the 80's and 90's, spectacular cars with spectacular drivers who even had personalities! Methinks a certain Frenchman followed by another is making the sport unpalatable to the media circus - hard to market so to speak. Also to note why are these problems only with the WRC? The ERC seems to be doing just fine and if you look at some domestic championships they are as popular now as they ever were. Somebody in the FIA needs a kick up the backside......

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I wouldn't say the ERC is doing fine, the last event attracted 32 entries. The quality of drivers in that championship is poor and there are 2 manufacturers. However, unlike the WRC, the outcome of events is not that predictable.

Just ridicolous, it sounds like a joke the fact they're actually proposing that :s It would be just an enormous farce, absolutely pathetic

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Originally Posted by focus206

Just ridicolous, it sounds like a joke the fact they're actually proposing that :s It would be just an enormous farce, absolutely pathetic

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+1

Eurosport will be benefited if this happen because it will keep the rallies as we all know.the problem will not be for rallies but for wrc,i really dont care.if they want to destroy wrc i will follow the erc on maybe a new global rally championsip,i will not stop love this sport because of some as&&&@&@&es.

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/05/01/i...f-jordan-rally

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/05/01/i...f-jordan-rally

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probably non starter for Argentina also.

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Originally Posted by pantealex

probably non starter for Argentina also.

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Best wishes for a speedy recovery, I'm sure he won't want for excellent medical attention.
Pleasant guy who seems to love what he does and doesn't mind it showing.

Nice interview by Kubica comparing WRC and F1
http://www.autox.in/feature/formula-...ferent-worlds/

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Originally Posted by Doon

I wouldn't say the ERC is doing fine, the last event attracted 32 entries. The quality of drivers in that championship is poor and there are 2 manufacturers. However, unlike the WRC, the outcome of events is not that predictable.

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There were much more competitors, but not eligible in ERC due to stupid FIA rules (especially tyres). Quality of drivers in that championship is good, for sure not worse than WRC2 or non-manufacturers drivers in WRC. And only two manufacturers? ERC is primary for private drivers. In S2000 era there were more different brands than in WRC, thats why FIA killed it...

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Originally Posted by PLuto

, thats why FIA killed it...

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explanation please!

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Originally Posted by nafpaktos

explanation please!

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I'm sure PLuto meant the ban of new S2000 homologations which was imposed exactly (accidentally if You like) at the peak of IRC (and S2000) popularity. The successive 1.6T formula proved itself to be extremely costly for privateers and never achieved any success out of WRC. Since then the IRC level started to decrease while before it was constantly rising.

Alex Kelsey has designed and built his own rally car in a barn in New Zealand. He calls it an MC2 abbreviation of MadCreation2
Here is the local news coverage http://www.3news.co.nz/Kiwi-rally-st...8/Default.aspx Prepare to be amazed
and here is an article with a lot more info
http://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/alex...in-coromandel/

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Originally Posted by KiwiWRCfan

Alex Kelsey has designed and built his own rally car in a barn in New Zealand. He calls it an MC2 abbreviation of MadCreation2
Here is the local news coverage http://www.3news.co.nz/Kiwi-rally-st...8/Default.aspx Prepare to be amazed
and here is an article with a lot more info
http://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/alex...in-coromandel/

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Wow! Please KiwiWRCfan, let us know all news about this man and his project when it comes up .

How much did that cost to build?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

I'm sure PLuto meant the ban of new S2000 homologations which was imposed exactly (accidentally if You like) at the peak of IRC (and S2000) popularity. The successive 1.6T formula proved itself to be extremely costly for privateers and never achieved any success out of WRC. Since then the IRC level started to decrease while before it was constantly rising.

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The 1.6Τ formoula(rrc) was expensive that's for sure but the s2000 was almost the same expensive,so o dont think this could be a reason.

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Originally Posted by nafpaktos

The 1.6Τ formoula(rrc) was expensive that's for sure but the s2000 was almost the same expensive,so o dont think this could be a reason.

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Absolutely not! For example engine rebuild of Fabia S2000 costs 1/3 of the same for Fiesta RRC. It's huge difference. There are almost no RRC cars among teams outside WRC but hundreds of S2000 cars even three years after new homologations were banned.

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Originally Posted by KiwiWRCfan

Alex Kelsey has designed and built his own rally car in a barn in New Zealand. He calls it an MC2 abbreviation of MadCreation2
Here is the local news coverage http://www.3news.co.nz/Kiwi-rally-st...8/Default.aspx Prepare to be amazed
and here is an article with a lot more info
http://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/alex...in-coromandel/

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You forgot the best video link, the hot lap!

http://www.3news.co.nz/Video-A-hotla...7/Default.aspx

Listen to the sound, like no rally car I've ever heard, even group B. I wish he'd built this while I was still in NZ...

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Originally Posted by Doon

How much did that cost to build?

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I'd be interested to know this too. Sourcing every part based on value, buying brake discs from cancelled Subaru WRCs, making your own frame etc. make me think he may have done the classic kiwi style of Burt Munro - maximum speed for minimum money.

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Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera

You forgot the best video link, the hot lap!

http://www.3news.co.nz/Video-A-hotla...7/Default.aspx

Listen to the sound, like no rally car I've ever heard, even group B. I wish he'd built this while I was still in NZ...

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You've obviously never heard of or seen this then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZTvsJsYYA

I'll wait till I heard this MC2 in the forest, but Andy Burton's car is the benchmark for any self build car;

1. It looks better
2. Probably quicker
3. Cheaper to build (that 207 looks expensive!)
4. Will always have a more legendary following

This guy must have taken some inspiration from Andy Burton's 306 Cosworth, Pug, mid engine, build in a barn.......although this fella's ^ barn looks like a pretty decent workshop. Fair play to the lad. Would love to see the 306 vs 207 on a forest stage.

Remember AB was doing Rally GB National 2010, and in Radnor he was 17s down on the stage winner (Petter) which would have put him 7th O/A......and that was after a 10s spin. What a car, what a driver!

Well, Doon, you don´t have to be yellous. Both cars are very nice. Though I think theKiwi one is much worse. However which class will they suit?
We do have the R-classes and WRC and none will be suitable for any of those cars.

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Originally Posted by Doon

How much did that cost to build?

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Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera

I'd be interested to know this too. Sourcing every part based on value, buying brake discs from cancelled Subaru WRCs, making your own frame etc. make me think he may have done the classic kiwi style of Burt Munro - maximum speed for minimum money.

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It says in the video less than a PWRC, not bad if its true.

That ("Less than a top Grp N") was one of the earlier claims/goals stated for this car, however I suspect the true labour cost was not factored into that sum.

Interesting comments from Peugeot about WRC and its 'promoter'

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/05/13/f...-is-not-for-me

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

Interesting comments from Peugeot about WRC and its 'promoter'

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/05/13/f...-is-not-for-me

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Another guy who has lost sight of what the WRC actually is. A compact 3 day event (this I assume is including the recce) is not the way forward for the WRC, possibly 1 day of 'micky mouse' stages and 2 days of proper stages, with 2 days of recce might work. It sounds to me that manufactures want to go Rallycrossing, purely because it's cheaper and it's and easier to broadcast. For me Rallycross is one up from 'banger racing'. The whole point of the WRC is the surroundings, the stunning scenery and local places and people in the back of nowhere, places that'd you'd never normally visit. I've seen some excellent places in the europe watching WRC events, but it's not for the un-adventureous. It's not for people who want to sit by a race track for 8 hours, and I say let those people stay at the race tracks and the rest of us can have adventures watching the WRC!

I agree that the cars should be cheaper, and with an R5 format the entries would be much higher in the top class, but R5 cars are a little dull compared to WRCs.

In the good old days, the sport did as it pleased and it worked. Trying to appease the masses clearly doesn't work. I still stand by the fact that over the last 15 years watching the WRC live, on the stages (not on a 50 inch flat screen, in your armchair on Sunday afternoon), the sport has not changed apart from loosing the entries. It's still as exciting, the cars are even fast, the drivers fitter and quicker.

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Originally Posted by Doon

Another guy who has lost sight of what the WRC actually is. A compact 3 day event (this I assume is including the recce) is not the way forward for the WRC, possibly 1 day of 'micky mouse' stages and 2 days of proper stages, with 2 days of recce might work. It sounds to me that manufactures want to go Rallycrossing, purely because it's cheaper and it's and easier to broadcast. For me Rallycross is one up from 'banger racing'. The whole point of the WRC is the surroundings, the stunning scenery and local places and people in the back of nowhere, places that'd you'd never normally visit. I've seen some excellent places in the europe watching WRC events, but it's not for the un-adventureous. It's not for people who want to sit by a race track for 8 hours, and I say let those people stay at the race tracks and the rest of us can have adventures watching the WRC!

I agree that the cars should be cheaper, and with an R5 format the entries would be much higher in the top class, but R5 cars are a little dull compared to WRCs.

In the good old days, the sport did as it pleased and it worked. Trying to appease the masses clearly doesn't work. I still stand by the fact that over the last 15 years watching the WRC live, on the stages (not on a 50 inch flat screen, in your armchair on Sunday afternoon), the sport has not changed apart from loosing the entries. It's still as exciting, the cars are even fast, the drivers fitter and quicker.

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But if the manufacturers dont get what they want, they wont play, simple, WRC will be for amatuers and hobbyists with no paid or sponsored drivers. How long will it survive then?
I think an R5 or R5+ future with say recce on friday, long day of competition on saturday before a power stage focused sunday, could save rallying for the manufacturers. Afterall, manuifacturers are not sports enthusisast they want to sell cars. If Petter and Hansen do that in RallyX with live tv, I am afraid that thats where the sport will go. We have had years on posts on this and other forums and no one is listening. The manufacturerers and FIA wont let us go back to the late 1990's (when I think it was best)

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Originally Posted by MJW

But if the manufacturers dont get what they want, they wont play, simple, WRC will be for amatuers and hobbyists with no paid or sponsored drivers. How long will it survive then?
I think an R5 or R5+ future with say recce on friday, long day of competition on saturday before a power stage focused sunday, could save rallying for the manufacturers. Afterall, manuifacturers are not sports enthusisast they want to sell cars. If Petter and Hansen do that in RallyX with live tv, I am afraid that thats where the sport will go. We have had years on posts on this and other forums and no one is listening. The manufacturerers and FIA wont let us go back to the late 1990's (when I think it was best)

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That is probably what it needs. Let the WRC as we know it die out, then amatures start their own championship. Eventually it will become healthy again. It's pretty much the process RX has been going through for the last 20 years.

Chuck me in the loony bin but 1 day of full competition, plus a powerstage, sounds rubbish. It would definately ruin the atmosphere at events, how many people would travel hundreds of miles, even thousands, and spend huge amounts of money to watch one full day of rallying? I'd stay at home and watch the day long local events.

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Originally Posted by Doon

Chuck me in the loony bin but 1 day of full competition, plus a powerstage, sounds rubbish. It would definately ruin the atmosphere at events, how many people would travel hundreds of miles, even thousands, and spend huge amounts of money to watch one full day of rallying? I'd stay at home and watch the day long local events.

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How many came to Fafe? And I know for a fact that WRC promoter / Red Bull Media House or whaterver they are were blown away by the success of Fafe rallysprint.

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Originally Posted by MJW

How many came to Fafe? And I know for a fact that WRC promoter / Red Bull Media House or whaterver they are were blown away by the success of Fafe rallysprint.

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They attended Fafe last year with Todt, so it's been obviously bubbling away for a while...

But it's taking them forever to understand it!! As we see no positive change has occurred.

I began to follow the WRC in 1999..

Can someone bring back memories of what the difference in the WRC was in. 1999-to-2003 when it was in Better Years? To what people want it now?

How far do you change a sport, just to appease Manufacturers? I'd say they've changed the sport far too much as it is. What they want is World Rally X 'Endurance'.

I now think enough is enough - it's time to tell the Manufacturers to go to RallyX. WRC is not for them.

Do you think if Manufacturers asked the ACO to reduce the hours of Sportscar racing they'd listen? No! They'd be told to go away.....

Rallying seems hell bent on changing for Manufacturers, TV, etc Eventually there'll be nothing left of it. Someone has to make a stand.

Can we keep this in perspective? What I was refering to was an article attributed to a senior empoyee in a manufacturer's competition department who said WRC is too expensive and does not offer the rate of return on investment that the car manufacturer he works for expects. Peugeot had a massive publicity success rate on Pikes Peak 2013, and then Bruno Famin said the whole project cost less than a privateer spends on a wrc programme. In this article on maxrally he also said that rallyx gave them what they wanted. Face it WRC is in a crisis, we are nearing half way through year 2 if VW's guaranteed commitment of a three year programme. What next?

How many countries broadcast live apart from the local channels and Bt Sport/ESPN UK?

Viasat Sport in Norway had ordered it for the whole season but was later told they couldn't have it, wonder what the reason for that could be...

I don't know about everyone else but there are two big problems with the current WRC TV coverage. Well they're minor really but they reduce my enthusiasm for watching it so much.

1. In-car cameras used to be positioned behind the the driver/co-driver - not only could you see the scenery bearing down on the car but you could see the driver hard at work fighting the controls and the co-driver trying to keep cool whilst being thrown about. What was wrong with that and why do we now have to view through a tiny portion of the windscreen that often gets covered in muck, thereby reducing total visible action?

2. Helicopter shots, helicopter shots and more helicopter shots! Rally cars tearing through open moorland, over Alpine roads or between giant trees looks about 10 times less spectacular when viewed from above with these ruddy heli-cams. All you can really see is the car covering ground rather than the way it takes the crests and puts it's power down out of a hairpin bend. The few times we do see stage-side action - Argentina's power stage for example, due to fog rendering the heli-cam useless - it is so much more spectacular, mainly because you get a proper sense of the speed the cars travel at.

So when promotors/team bosses/FIA talk about getting fans interested in Rallying again and only talking b*ll*cks about 'new media', more live coverage etc I just shout at my computer screen because they're missing the point. The product isn't failing, it's the boring way most of it is broadcast. Just think how boring RX, F1, Moto GP etc would become if around 70% of the event was shown from a helicopter. Or depending on your opinion on those sports, how much more boring it would become

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Originally Posted by MJW

How many came to Fafe? And I know for a fact that WRC promoter / Red Bull Media House or whaterver they are were blown away by the success of Fafe rallysprint.

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Fair point but that is one stage in one country, and its a kind of mass protest to take the rally back to the north.....where it was when WRC was popular. I think the idea of a powerstage day is good, using one stage, but there need to be at least 2 full days before, otherwise the sport is rallysprinting, not rallying.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

But it's taking them forever to understand it!! As we see no positive change has occurred.

I began to follow the WRC in 1999..

Can someone bring back memories of what the difference in the WRC was in. 1999-to-2003 when it was in Better Years? To what people want it now?

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There wasnt one guy totally dominating, that is the problem. Even when Makinen won 4 on the trot he didnt look invincible......Loeb was and now Ogier is, and he may win for the next 6 or 7 years.