Thank You, that's clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
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Thank You, that's clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
Guys it is all over, Wilson accepted the outcome of investigation as far as we know. If there would be any doubts Ford did not let go.
I believe that the Citroen drivers knew that they could take the shortcut.
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uut...tkii-oikaisuja
Hope the video works outside Finland.
Is that road book from this year?
The picture of the roadbook I have seen is different,
It is this one:
http://www.rallynoticias.com/Noticia...w_big_4058.jpg
If the last one is the one actually in the road book, Citroen is correct, as both ways on the roundabout are marked in the roundabout, and organizers were wrong in taping the "shorter and contrary to usual road sense".
If Bartoz then removed the tape, is because he must have seen taping blocking the road indicated in the road book, and he would have een right.
I understand that both the FIA and Citroen were right, the problem was in th road book.
It seems that organizers tried to correct the error thorugh that agreement (I only have this forum information of Elena not signing a gentlemen agreement).
But if the finish media photo is the corrext one, therefore, Citroen and the FIA are wrong, roads was clearly marked down.
I will try to confirm with a driver which was actually the road book.
Interesting. So which picture is right? :)
Just don't mention the war
Doesn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by OldF
To ZegueArgentina:
I think that it is becauce writer(Tomi Tuominen ex-Gardemeister co-driver) told earlier that heīs going to ask that page from Anttila or Lehtinen.
What the hell is going on?
Tuominen has aqcuired that page from Lehtinen or Anttila, so it is valid. I actually asked him (because he's FCDA president) to scan that page so general public could see the problematic box 18. Question now is... Have the organisers made such a big mistake, that there could be two different versions? Is either version tampered - those // -symbols added or deleted?
Now this is getting interesting. :)
The finnish version is not correct, because the two strike-throughs are manmade, not printed.
in any case....what did the citroen do wrong ???
Did they went in the wrong way while the road book said they couldn't ??? then why mr Bartoz removed the tape ??
If we had 2 different road books then the organisers are at fault and they god penalised....now did they give the shortcut roadbooks to citroen while they didn't gave anything at ford ??? then why did they give that 1 min penalty at Loeb ?? and that stone in Latvalas way is very suspicious also since its in the middle of the road.....hmmmmm
and finally a pledge to the finnish media and fans...please do not cry too much we already going to drown in 2345 b.c from the melting of the icebergs so we cannot afford any rise of the seas from your tears...
Bugger off!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Why?
thats more than 2 seconds gained i think.....considering the momentum the citroens gained from the shortcut.
Solberg also followed the shortcut.
way more than 2 seconds...
Further clarification for the road book anomaly.
In the original road book, there are no strikethroughs "//" on page 55, box 18.
But there's been an official bulletin, which all competitors have received. It had addendum which was new roadbook page 55 - surprise surprise - with strikethroughs in the box 18. :)
then why the ford drivers didn't do it ?
There was no bulletin for that and that was also the main reason why the organizer was penalized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
Usually in such junctions, the direction to be followed is shown with a bold line. In this the route was unclear and both ways were legal.
Perhaps that is why competitors made some gentlemen's agreement, that only some choose to follow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
May be because they sticked to the rule that says, you have to follow the roadbook?
No. There was a bulletin. The picture in MTV3's page is not a picture about a roadbook, but a picture about the addendum of the bulletin. Also here: http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2887843_n.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by ARF
All the official bulletins are also on the Rally Argentina website and there's nothing for that junction.
So just going back a little bit:
First, the roadbook was wrong, so organizers sent the bulletin and Then put some tape blocking the place, this stays like that for the first run, and on the second run Mr Bartoz, looking at the original roadbook (I guess), gets off the chopper and removes the tape. Before the second run the Citroens agree to go the short way as shown (or at least allowed) in the original roadbook and without the tape they run free through that place, the fords follow the advice of the bulletin and go the long way, loose a few seconds, and later on Mikko looses the rally because of that. right ot wrong?
So it was a BIG missunderstanding?? so big even the FIA delegate got confused? and factory drivers did different things??
but there was a bulletin.....and thats why bartoz removed the tape.Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
Damn Im confused...
http://twitter.com/#!/WRCgerardquinn...68877155704832
Gerard Quinn: "@almcmotorclub you can see the controversial roundabout at the start of our rally review at http://bit.ly/ke9UGC"
Maybe it'all about winners are winners and loosers are loosers. M.Wilson is good businessman but stupid as a sport boss leaded by the money not success.
The part of original roadbook is shown in Martin Holmes article in http://mag.gpweek.com/ page 43, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
This is a stupid situation that only happened because the FIA delegate decided to do something, and is stupid because FIA penalized... the organizers!
On the first run there were no problems, so why to change to the second run.
Aparently, the roadbook "mistake" was under control until the FIA delegate put the hands on the situation.
And ok, Citroen won the rally here. Not a honest win IMO.
Citroen didn't do anything wrong
In such cases rally organizers should have reacted quickly. There was only one good solution. neutralize the results of that stage. But they missed their time slot and that caused all the trouble:-)
Itīs obvious - Citroen hired Mr Bartoz to change the way they should drive. And that legitimized the whole thing. Only though Ford didnt know...?
you actually accuse a safety official who has this job for more than 15 years.... of bribery ????? LOL
I think he was joking...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I dont believe citroen did anything wrong here, if only the fords had cut the same corner it would have been fair, in a wierd sort of way...
My guess is that simply Citroen had a man at this juntion. He seen the tape being taken down, and relyed the information to the team.
I think Ford should be more concerned how Loeb took 1min out of their no.1 driver, in 2 days.
Question 1: Are in Argentina Gravel Cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Question 2: When yes, did Citroen have the luck and there Gravel Car was at that roundabout at the right time and notice the change?
Sorry boys, this is Ford's money, badge and goodwill.... Mr. Wilson is only a very, very good businessman, he's just looking for a profit from business activities in M-Sport. The show is about the Ford's boss Gerard Quinn who spends time checking and supervising all Ford's European pretty budgets for winning success! Or not? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
If you want to win in Motorsport, you have to spend. And it’s only going to get harder for Ford with VW coming in with a seemingly mega budget. From what we’ve all read, if it wasn’t for AbuDhabi and other sponsors, plus customer cars, Ford would struggle to be in the WRC. Maybe Ford need to dig into their pockets a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat
The outcome of a rally shouldnt depend on whether being at a place or not. Everything should be in the roadbook and nothing could be changed between two legs/passings at the same spot. Thatīs what Mr Bartoz interferred in the way the rally would have ended.
Spend how much money you want and put a teammember in every corner. Is that what you guys mean when comparing budgets and smartness between Ford and Citroen?