I'd like to see this become an R-GT car: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...t-spy-pictures
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I'd like to see this become an R-GT car: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...t-spy-pictures
That's an older Lotus Elise/Exige... slightly modified. There is an actual lotus Exige R-GT... it appears to have run in Ypres but I have no idea which year. I would love to see that in the R-GT championship! (It seems to be official from the factory also, hmmm. Could be mentioned in this thread before, I will admit that I haven't read it cover to cover).
http://www.lotuscars.com/our-cars/cu...e-s-exige-r-gt
http://www.lotuscars.com/sites/defau...um_624x416.jpg
2012 as course car. Driver was Bernardo Sousa
The car had only provisional homologation for Rali Madeira (it followed after Ypres) but the homologation process was never finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
It's a test mule of the forthcoming Renault Alpine clothed in Lotus bodywork. The production version of this concept is to what I was referring, not a Lotus: http://www.largus.fr/images/images/a...concept-49.jpg
How typical of lotus... It is very frustrating being a big fan of them *sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Thanks for the info anyway!
No way FIA will ever allow cheaper cars to be quicker than R5, they just can't let that happen. ;) Also FIA is really not encouraging any drivers to choose GT. The car is almost a group N and the homologation procedure is too complicated and expensive for privateers, on top of that it lasts only up to 2 years (until the end of the year after you homologate the car, if anyone homologates their Porsche now it would last to the end of 2016).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
It's little strange how things developed. Back in 70's You can see some 911s on the podium of Safari Rally! May be the RGT class should be made for gravel as well....
Back in 1970' everything was different. 4WD cars were forbidden in rallying, everybody used sports cars and the air-cooled engines of Porsches were good for endurance events. Just one little thing was enough to make things upside down - to allow 4WD.
I think the big change was the thing that created the need for dividing up the power and spreading it out to 4 wheels, and that change was this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
http://www.performance-car-guide.co....b-99-Turbo.jpg
Saab could not compete on equal footing with the all conquering Group 4 Ford Escorts with the great Cosworth BDG even with their 16v head---only 235 bhp vs 252-262 for BDG---mainly they figured from having a much heavier car so they added one of these:
(lurking behind the waste-gate)
http://www.99t.co.uk/saabs/combi/99t-7.jpg
And made TONS more torque....and then discovered very quickly that the housing for the gearbox was far far far too weak..
I am good friends with the engine builder at Saab from those days and have staying at his house several times.
Massive torque drove the need for more than 2 wheels driving..
Only then did the extra weight and problems of 4wd make sense.
Whatever the history, regarding these refugees from the circuits, I don't understand the fascination. They are clearly way way in excess of what is needed..too brutal delivery and so guys driving are too timid. They could de-tune a bit and go faster.
Sure You have a good point here. Also the turbos of that time suffered from very notable lags and the turbo RWD cars were considered very difficult to drive.
I guess You might be interested in a fact that even here in the East we had some turbo cars in 1970' though none of them made it to rally homologation (mainly due to socialistic politics of the state which didn't allow making "expensive" road cars and therefore also suitable turbos in large scale).
Here is one - Škoda 2000 MI used on circuits and hill climbs since 1975. It wasn't very successful due to low reliability. If I understood right they had problems with the wastegate etc.
http://www.skodateam.cz/Skoda_2000_M...-img_02wwk.jpg
http://www.skodateam.cz/Skoda_2000_M...-img_02xsY.jpg
http://www.skodateam.cz/Skoda_2000_M...-img_02y4w.jpg
http://www.foltyn.cz/car/skoda/s2000mi_5v.jpg
The engine was 2.0 litre OHC I4 from Škoda which was never allowed into production (actually same engine as used in quite rare rally cars Škoda 200RS and 180RS). The capacity was reduced to 1.77 (87x74.5) to keep the car in 2.5 litre class. The compression ratio was 6.8. The turbocharger was KKK with wastegate but without intercooler. The engine had single throttle valve and indirect fuel injection into four air channels just before the cylinder head. It used Schafer fuel pump. The power was 238 Hp at 6000 rpm. Compared to 130 RS here the engine was in front of the rear axle and it was therefore mid-engine car.
Yes, I know. FIA would rather kill this sport than make it more accessible :(Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Why do you not understand it? Those GT cars look strange on a rally stage, are difficult to drive and have a beautiful engine sound. Do you think that people come to the stages to see boring Ford Fiesta R2 and hear the awful engine sound of Ford Fiesta R5? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
It was in 2012. If I remember correctly this Lotus only competed in two rallies - Ypres as a course car and then Rali Vinho da Madeira. It wasn't lucky though. On Madeira Lotus made it only to the 3rd special stage, where it had some technical problem and crashed. This project was probably killed in the same year, which is a shame, because it had manufacturer support and some great drivers were testing the car (including multiple time European Champion Luca Rossetti).Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Rali Vinho da Madeira result:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_i...a-Madeira-2012
Rali Vinho da Madeira photo:
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/photo...g_1131copy.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
RGT needs another push from FIA. Otherwise leading GT rally drivers will not change their national cars into international competition. Homologation cost is expensive but calculable and you need 2 full years of course. And if Snijers can do it, (do we see the car again at Monte?) many other also could do it.
But many other fans and good drivers with balls do. And sponsors too. So we will see them.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
I think Snijers-Ypres was quite a disaster. Although that car was never good..
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[QUOTE=CWJ;1063743
But many other fans and good drivers with balls do. And sponsors too. So we will see them.[/QUOTE]
That way I'm upset when I hear words like : Pech is lost....no, he is not lost. He will continue his career, thank god on international level (he can drive almost all Czech stages blind...), if the team will approach so methodical to 911 project as they did with Mini (fastest and most reliable Mini RRC in the world!), I'm sure that Vaclav & team is going to have a very bright future...
The only thing what worries me : how will he seat in so small cabin, it will be difficult even to get in the car....
He is still lucky that it's not Lutus! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
Hahaha, a good one Jarek !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Forget the turbo, that's an interesting looking manifold and whatever that red bit qualifies as.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
The exhaust manifold? Huh? Just a cast iron thing with a heat-shield...You want one? (I think I still have 1-2 from when I built some "B" motors)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
The actual rally cars were homologated under Group 4 I believe, and so had a tubular header.. That waste gate actuator looks impressive but let me tell you they were an enormous pain in the ass to set and it often could take 3-4 times and with the paper thin silicone rubber diaphragm inside, insanely easy to rip the rubber...It was such a relief when they finally moved to the nice ordinary waste gate actuators like these;
http://www.himni-racing.com/images/act%2018%20psi.jpg
If you're referring to the intake manifold, then that is just standard Saab 2,0 K-jet manifold..Quite long...Used on normal aspirated production cars (where its internal volume was a big bottle neck and limited n.a. power to right around 175hp--functioning much like todays accursed restrictors...but that was only a problem on Group 1 and 2 and later GpA cars..and extremely few ever bothered with the car in Gp1,2 or A)
Dobberkau is nearly 2m , Stölzel a more sturdy fellow... so no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
The heat plate was blocking some of the tubing. It looked like the wastegate was coming off before all the cylinders were collected. If my WRX ever dies I'll probably visit a friend in Portland with an eye to finding a 240. A 99 would be nice, too but they're not as common. I've got a friend that rallies one in Missouri, and there's a black 900 SPG that still turns up in Chicago in the summer months, but that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Indeed! 4WD was allowed in WRC from 1979 by suggestion of the Audi representative in the rally manufacturers commission (then designated BPICA), that managed to convince other manus that Audi was interested in rallying VW Iltis derivade models! FIA adopted the BPICA unanimous recommendation and the first 4WD WRC entered car was a Gr.2 Range Rover, in '79 Ivory Coast rally. The Quattro presentation in '80 Geneva Motorshow was a real bombshell in rally world...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Nice to see the Tuthill Porsche R-GT in action on my local rally stages this weekend ! Hired by John Stone for the NW Stages (Promenade Rally, Wirral)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFTo0CXAAEoXJl.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COFwn6aW8AA_upG.jpg:large
Excuse my disinterest in the technical stuff... normally I'd be all over that shit but right now I am more excited because I just figured out who you are hahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
You're that dude in that rally documentary I watched a while ago who started rallying because you were getting rained on (who also has a cat in the work shop)!
The world is a small place.
...aight, enough off topic, back to technical stuff and rally GT cars. If they could make the series a bit more accessible and a bit more large volume it would be great. I do think that the speed they keep them to right now is fine. Manufacturers would be pissed if they overtook their machines on pure pace and people are excited to see them anyway.
Wow! The livery looks fantastic! I'm curious to read your impressions after the rally!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Another great pic from Friday night...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COK7zOHXAAAeShG.jpg:large
Video clip: https://twitter.com/welburn_chris/st...80579947294720
The car looks and sounds fantastic but wasn't the fastest on the tight, twisty stages (finished 24th). Plus being hired I dont think the driver wanted to risk doing any damage.
Results: http://www.amcrallyresults.co.uk/psroall2015.pdf
With the RGT class and interest around it growing it will be interesting to see if Tuthill add another chassis next year. That's the same car that was on the Monte, Circuit of Ireland, Lurgan Park, Ypres, Germany etc and competed all last year.
A really big off certainly puts them at risk.
I'd like to know were the rest of these cars are? We've only really seen the Tuthill & Dumas cars on numerous events. And what about other marques? It doesn't have to be Porsche, as much as I am a fan of them.
this porsche must be a pleasure to watch trying to finish ahead of 20 years old peugeots 106 and opel corsas.
I think he had a small accident or technical on SS8 as it was running in the top 10 times prior to this. They said it was then going to retire but John Stone just drove it around the remaining stages, probably as so many people just wanted to see the car...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Does anyone know about Tommi's GR86X..?
You did!!??Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
That's good! cause I haven't:arrows:
Okej....når som helst...
Du kan säga.....
Vem är jag?
Jag heter Jon o ja ha inte gjort nåt!
The trouble is there is little competitive reason for entering an R-GT car. That Lotus for example, someone could run a privateer one and we don't really know how it would compare to a Tuthill 911, but would surely be uncompetitive against a conventional rally car on most events.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Presumably the hook with these cars when trying to put a budget together is that despite being sports cars that aren't as quick as purpose built rally cars people will come out to see them and mainly hear them. Surely that's more attractive to potential sponsors? I'd like to see the R-GT cup expand, be properly promoted and try and gain some manufacturer support. Porsche vs Lotus vs Alpine vs Nissan is a mouthwatering prospect!
Edit: while I'm dreaming, add BMW & Audi in there too
Sadly the Lotus R-GT was very quiet car and quite boring car to watch...
Sounds alright to me https://youtu.be/lzuMT3h3dSg Though I agree it is fairly boring to watch, but being a mid-engined sports car it is better to see than most other contemporary rally cars
I have seen it live. It was quiet and in the wind You could barely hear it at all.
Tuthill's R-GT Porsche has been approved for gravel rallies, but unfortunately this year's Wales Rally GB is too close to the Rallye Valais (part of R-GT cup):
http://www.tuthillporsche.com/blog/t...menade-stages/Quote:
“The Tuthill Porsche 997 R-GT was recently approved for use on gravel events, so we hope to add more British rallies to next season’s calendar. [...] With so little room for manoeuvre in the FIA R-GT Cup schedule, it’s a shame to miss this year’s Wales Rally GB, but we’ll see what we can do for 2016.”