Reality and Agwiii are friends that are destined never to meet :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
He will just swear white is black and grey is pink till the cows come home.
You've got more chance of getting Eki to compliment GWB :D
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Reality and Agwiii are friends that are destined never to meet :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
He will just swear white is black and grey is pink till the cows come home.
You've got more chance of getting Eki to compliment GWB :D
I know that life can be a challenge for those of you that supported the Butcher of Bagdad, but GET OVER IT!Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
You have my sincere condolences. It must hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Truly, the Zoo of the Lord is colourful... :erm:
Anyway, back to topic. ;)
Interesting. I have spent half an hour trying to figure out what have of you guys are going on about, and I have come to a few solid conclusions:
1) No one really misses Saddam, and even those who decry captial punishment as a bad thing are really upset by this.
2)Anti-Americanism is alive and well, and it seems ole Dubya is the greatest threat to human kind in the eyes of many of you guys.
3) People from countries that used to be ruled by dictators or Communist regimes (same thing only different) have a greater grasp of what happened in Iraq than many of us spoiled brats who have only known democracy.
4) People who whine about political choices are so cynical that they have forgotten the first rule of democracy. Your government is only as good as the quality of people you elect. Most voters are cynical because they do not really want to think about the process of electing leaders. They read the papers once in a while, form their knee jerk reaction, and never change it. Then when the guy they elect is a village idiot, they declare the process bogus, and wonder why they keep getting idiots.
No, I decry the state of education, democratic values and the ability of people who have grown up with freedom and everything available to them to understand how fragile democracy and freedom are.
The Iraq war is now seen as wrong because of the mess it has devolved into, and it is a mess. That said, if Iraq picked up and became a viable democracy, then the critics would be hard pressed to justify half the venom they have dished on Bushie. The US of A is damned no matter what they do. If they ignore a situation, such as Rwanda or Sudan, then they are callous and uncaring. If they go in and try to set things right, they are condemned as butchers and killers. We have all the trendy leftest bleeding hearts in the US and Canada whining about the butchery in Darfur. The Janiweed in Darfur are butchering African non-Muslims and starving them. We have a humanitarian crisis and yet, the US is condemned for not getting involved. Well, it is a similar situation to what Saddam was doing with the Kurds. A genocidal action was being undertaken by a dictatorship while the world watched. So 10 years or so later, the US invades to take down that same dictatorship that was doing the genocidal actions. Now the US is the bad guy. I have come to the conclusion most of you guys would be happy if everyone stayed home, and never invaded anyone, so you could then whine about the atrocites that no one was seeing to.
The UN is a joke, always has been for it has allowed thugs like Hussein to run amok for years. When a democratic nation (no matter how much you think Dubya is a goof, he was elected - twice) tries to actually do something, whether you think the motives are altrusitic or not, they are condemned.
You cant please anyone at all in this world. Most of you guys just want to sit on your high horse and tell everyone how screwed up Dubya is or the world is or how hanging a dictator after a 3 month long trial is wrong, but you know what? You guys don't have all the answers. None of us do. Just know that those freedom's to call Dubya or Howard or Blair idiots didn't exist for anyone in Iraq. Saddam would feed you into the shredder if you were there and he was still running the shop. At least Iraq has a chance. If the people there refuse to see that for what it is, then that isn't the US of A's fault, it is theirs!!! Other people's free from a dictator or communist regime have managed to form democracies, why cant Iraq? You saying those people don't deserve what you have??
Not really true, many did see it wrong right from beginning, after all it was based on lies right from the start, WMD do you remember?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
And invading countries allways makes resistance, in every country there is people who dont want someone else to rule their country, thats why it is a mess now. :)
Maybe its also good to remember that Hussein earlier at the time he gased Iranians, was strongly supported by usa,then the us government had no problem with it what so ever.
Saddam hadn't done anything to the Kurds since 1991. US and British air forces patroling the area took care of that. George W Bush was like it was 1990 again. He was more than ten years late. He should have let the sleeping dogs lie. Iraq was stable, Bush destabilized it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Yep, Mark in Oshawa lives in a country that has never been invaded, yet he moralises us whose country was invaded just 67 years ago. Heck, let's invade Russia and take back Karelia. We shouldn't let it be, we lost it just over 60 years ago, it's not too late to do something about it. Bush has shown us it's never too late and that we never should forgive and forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
True, not to mention we had foreign fighters too, from Estonia, Sweden, and England too, would be difficult for me to call them terrorists. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Eki, I grant you Canada has never been invaded and Finland has. Canada didn't go to Iraq, and I stood by that decision. What I am pointing out is no matter what the US does, you would find fault. When is it right for a nation to invade to right a wrong. I thought the WMD argument was flimsy at best, but the UN and most intelligence organizations thought Saddam had WMD's. He could have avoided the whole reason for the war by just opening the door wide open for the inspectors. He played poker and he called Bush when he was bluffing. Let me cry a tear for a idiot....Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Eki, your self righteous blather about how evil all of this is, and how the US used to back Iraq is fine well and good, but lets also remember this. Nation states make lots of mistakes, countries back others who are not worthy of it later on, and decisions are made for real-politik. It is messy, awful and at the human level, wrong, but it is the way the world will always be. I, unlike you, do not condemn any democracy for their actions over those of a dictatorship. The people of Iraq deserved better than they were getting from that mad dog that ran them, and the only thing I say about the US not supporting him from 1990 on was he was their dog, but he became rabid, and in 2002, they put down the rabid dog. Name me ONE instance where a democracy has invaded another. A true western style democracy. You cannot.... Only dictators and thugs have reason to fear Bushie. It is unforturnate and terrible the innocent citizens can be caught in a war, and I decry that, but you cannot tell me that the people of Iraq are any better off with a thug running their nation. They were not. IN the end, it is now their call on how they want to handle freedom. Right now, they seem to just want to settle old scores.