The Crane and Lewis

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

I don't see any problem with the cars being lifted up while the drivers are in them. It isn't like it would be against the drivers will.

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It was a dangerous procedure, that JCB being there in the first place in a dangerous location with cars coming off, and one hitting it. I would say that it would have contravened industrial and safetly regulations to lift a car while the driver was sitting in it with the engine running. Would you not agree?

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

First of all, please read the rule I quoted again. It means the crane is not permitted to lift him back onto the track to continue the race.

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Could you pointed out which phrase indicating that. I see that means as far as possible heavy equipment is avoided to take such action, but not like crane etc is anyhow prohibited to be brought into the action.

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There was one report that said that Hamilton refused to switch off his engine and signalled the crane driver to lift him back onto the track. Everything happened very fast and there was much confusion; I doubt the clerk of the course was brought into the disscussion but maybe you have more information there.

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Please read the whole chapter, I'm not quite diligent to quote a pdf, what I could remember, If they found driver to be unhurt, they should report it to race control to enable them make further decision. It wasn't solely marshal authorities to decide such action, Intervention is made by marshal at that scene unless the clerk of the course made instruction otherwise.

Seems we have to refer to more subsidiaries of chapter to produce more appropriate decision. :D

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

I get the feeling that no teams protested because Hamilton didn't, in the end, end up with any advantage. And if they don't protest then it won't lead to a crackdown, meaning that other drivers may use this to their advantage.

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We should examine the rules again if it happens :)

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I don't see any problem with the cars being lifted up while the drivers are in them. It isn't like it would be against the drivers will.

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The crane wouldn't lift the car up to some high of 5 meter or more, falling from 1-2 meters for account of gravitation wouldn't be as bad as hitting the wall at 270 kph.

However the non-trained official it isn't a mandatory doing that.

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Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST

Any car in a dangerous place can get a push start, well its been done for Schumi in the past, and no one complained.

As much as Lewis was pleased to be lifted out so quickly, what on earth was the big tractor doing in the gravel trap when the road was so dangerous and cars were still spinning off????? Why was the red not called sooner??? I just think the Marshalls were running about in a dangerous spot, and the big yellow tractor was a serious cause for concern. I really feel it should have been made to wait until the safety car had slowed everyone up.

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As best as I can recall, Schumacher hadn't stalled his car either, he was high sided in the curbing. They didn't push start him that I recall, they pushed a running car out of the way. Personally, I think they should adopt rules that put cars back on the track, especially when they are put off by someone elses reckless driving.

With the standard practice of handling stricken race cars under only a local yellow, there are frequently cranes running around in the gravel, but
i do agree, continuing to run under green was foolish. Any other series would have gone full course yellow almost immediately when ther rain started falling as hard as it did.

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

Could you pointed out which phrase indicating that. I see that means as far as possible heavy equipment is avoided to take such action, but not like crane etc is anyhow prohibited to be brought into the action.


Please read the whole chapter, I'm not quite diligent to quote a pdf, what I could remember, If they found driver to be unhurt, they should report it to race control to enable them make further decision. It wasn't solely marshal authorities to decide such action, Intervention is made by marshal at that scene unless the clerk of the course made instruction otherwise.

Seems we have to refer to more subsidiaries of chapter to produce more appropriate decision. :D

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It's all in post #123 by tinchote. The phrase is: "cranes should not be brought into action until the driver has made it clear that he will not continue.

PLease read it carefully.

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

We should examine the rules again if it happens :)


The crane wouldn't lift the car up to some high of 5 meter or more, falling from 1-2 meters for account of gravitation wouldn't be as bad as hitting the wall at 270 kph.

However the non-trained official it isn't a mandatory doing that.

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There are very clear regulations, industrial and safety, for the operating of cranes in most countries. Lifting a car off the ground with the driver still in the car and the engine running could be considered a dangerous condition.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

It's all in post #123 by tinchote. The phrase is: "cranes should not be brought into action until the driver has made it clear that he will not continue.

PLease read it carefully.

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They found driver safe and sound, they might have reported it to the RC and decided to lift him up at back at the race. Poor Marshals if they are blamed for this. :(

This phrase applies appropriately to those damaged car and was obvious they will not and will not be able to continue the race.

[should] is closer to beckoning than prohibition, It doesn't state: Crane by all means is prohibited to be brought into action...

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There are very clear regulations, industrial and safety, for the operating of cranes in most countries. Lifting a car off the ground with the driver still in the car and the engine running could be considered a dangerous condition.

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This is standard and general regulation of usage of crane. They are used to lift cars in the accident like on the tollroad and put them in the garage of the police station or repair shop, while the driver/passenger have been evacuated for medical treatment. If they crane a new car there must be no driver or passenger inside, why would we be inside of the craned car?

Therefore, we have to examine if this happen again, non-skilled official is not recommended for executing the job :)

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

It's all in post #123 by tinchote. The phrase is: "cranes should not be brought into action until the driver has made it clear that he will not continue.

PLease read it carefully.

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Why losing time Valve. No matter what's in FIA's rules they clearly decided to ignore them.
Cranes are used to allow cars back on the race, when the rules state it isn't legal!
Teams are found guilty of breaches of the sporting regulations but not punished at all, not even one penny!

The World Wrestling Federation could learn from the FIA how the work should be done.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why losing time Valve. No matter what's in FIA's rules they clearly decided to ignore them.
Cranes are used to allow cars back on the race, when the rules state it isn't legal!
Teams are found guilty of breaches of the sporting regulations but not punished at all, not even one penny!

The World Wrestling Federation could learn from the FIA how the work should be done.

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ioan, I'm not going to be cynical about this. Things were happening very fast, the track was suddenly awash and cars were coming off at a surprising rate, and I can only guess the priority was to despatch the SC to try to keep things under control. Mayeb the Stewards had a panic situation, who knows?

It is my view, and I had suggested this previously, that a red flag situation should be implemented via the team intercoms and all cars can be stopped on track immediately, and then returned very slowly and safely to the pits.

However, it remains my view that Lewis Hamilton had broken the rules, and he should be erased from the results.

Our opinion should not come with a priori - over corrective to dramatize each fissure as weakness that the procedure was carried out wrongly.

I think that flagging and SC have been deployed according to procedure before the crane taken to action. However if we are strongly convinced that it was wrong, FIA is the proper party than Hamilton.

Ahm, let’s have a hot coffee he is fastest again :D