4 degrees of camber

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Originally Posted by Daniel

If this were McLaren and they'd run this much camber and unlike RBR hadn't asked if they could change their tyres or camber settings, we would potentially be here talking about how it was a master stroke and how great Button is in these sorts of conditions or whatever.

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I guess this pretty much sums up this whole thread! :up:

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Since the tyres were blistering at a 4 degree camber angle anyway it is unlikely the 4 degree recommendation was given on the grounds of looking good. Pirelli’s foremost responsibility is to the safety of the drivers. Clearly, at Spa, RBR’s went beyond this and **** themselves.

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I guess the **** mean :up: :up: :up: :up: !

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Originally Posted by ioan

What rules did they not obey?

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Read what I posted. They didn't break any rules, but applied to breach parc fermé conditions without sanction.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Read what I posted. They didn't break any rules, but applied to breach parc fermé conditions without sanction.

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It wouldn't have been the first time when a team would be granted the possibility to make changes in parc ferme due to a safety issue.

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Originally Posted by ioan

It wouldn't have been the first time when a team would be granted the possibility to make changes in parc ferme due to a safety issue.

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But it would have been due entirely to RBR knowingly ignoring the recommendations of their tyres supplier.

As I said earlier, imagine they'd blanked off their brake cooling ducts against Brembo*'s advice, then discovered in Q that the brakes overheated. Would anybody be taking cheap shots at Brembo?

*or whoever their brake supplier is.

I have just shown what a light weight fan I am, I left this morning 3 pages into Camber, and returned now to see 8. And the light weight I am didn't read all 5 pages on camber.

My guess is that the debate got heated for at least 2 of those pages. :p :

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Originally Posted by Dave B

But it would have been due entirely to RBR knowingly ignoring the recommendations of their tyres supplier.

As I said earlier, imagine they'd blanked off their brake cooling ducts against Brembo*'s advice, then discovered in Q that the brakes overheated. Would anybody be taking cheap shots at Brembo?

*or whoever their brake supplier is.

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They didn't have much dry running until qualy as far as I remember so not sure what the situation was, but did Pirelli make the recommendations before or after qualifying?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I made it clear I didn't pin all my beliefs on what had read, but thanks for the advice.

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I hope you have the same stance 'on what had written'! ;)
Just joking.

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Originally Posted by vhatever

I think you have totally lost the plot. This thread is about regulating camber settings. And since it appears you are totally confused about the difference between a recommendation and a regulation, you really should contemplate on it, preferably with a dictionary by your side.

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It is you that has lost the plot. I'm quite aware of what I posted, and very aware that it's not your place to decide what I can post. RBR ran the tires beyond the Pirelli spec. I did not imply or state this created a rules violation, simply that RBR put themselves in the situation of having tire problems.

RBR then requested an allowance for new tires without starting from the pit lane, thus requested to circumvent the regulations regarding parc ferme.



I'd have someone retrieve the dictionary for you, but it's apparent that due to cranial rectumitis your head is in the way. :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Which I'm sure is exactly why Newey, one of the most experienced men on the grid, was so nervous for his drivers... because RBR ran within safe parameters. Something not fit with this picture to you?

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I think you're getting it all back to front here.

McLaren wanted to replace their tyres too and RBR simply saw an opportunity to advantage themselves and dress it up safety concerns. You can't fault them for trying I guess. RBR never actually talked about starting from the pits, it was of course an option they would have been allowed to choose IF they had felt there was grave danger to the safety of the drivers.

Personally I feel that you can't have your cake and eat it. McLaren and RBR reaped the reward of running camber and you can't allow them to then get rid of the tyres which were worn because of the camber.

You seem to be interpreting everything with a huge amount of bias, I'm a big safety person, I'd love it if the cars had canopies on them, I wish drivers wouldn't hit each other at high speed and I appreciate the potential for running too much camber to cause a tyre failure, but what this actually on the cards? As I keep repeating, we don't know. Till RBR or Pirelli come out and issue a statement we don't know. We literally do not know and to say that it was or wasn't at the moment is pure speculation.

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My Dear Daniel, I see what you're saying. However, this is a forum of discussion and most people here, barring a few, think outside the box and for themselves. Thinking for yourself involves drawing your own conclusions based on facts with which you are presented. Sometimes our conclusions can differ. When this happens we discuss our conclusions with each other. This is the nature of debate. If we all stuck to bare facts and made no suppositions based on those facts then we would have nothing to discuss.

It is very clear from Newey's demeanour throughout the Belgium GP and the fact that he had tears in his eyes as both his drivers crossed the finish line that he was very worried about his drivers. The only conclusion I can come to is that he was indeed very worried about the possibility of RBR's tyres delaminating. I base this conclusion on events leading up to the Grand Prix and what Newey and RBR said afterwards. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conlusion that RBR were bricking it.

Whether tyre failure was actually on the cards or not? I don't really know. I would imagine that were the drivers left out there for long enough then it probably was. Therefore, based on everything else, my opinion is that RBR needlessly took a sily risk, went beyond Pirelli's 4 degree camber recommendation and both drivers could have paid the price.

Pirelli's motivations for recommending 4 degrees camber is subject to scrutiny of course. However, as far as we know, no other team went beyond their recommendations. RBR were clearly concerned for their drivers. This would draw me to conclude that Pirelli's recommendation was suggested, at least partially, on safety grounds and when this is forms part of a recommendation it should NEVER be ignored.