why no penalty for Hamilton?

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Did I say they can't? Plus you're really missing the point I'm trying to make by a landslide.



And equal criticism of Webber as well. Vettel fans criticizing Webber and vice versa. A few posts ago you said you saw the incident with Vettel and Webber as 50-50, and yet in the Monaco 2011 thread I remember you saying that the onus of a clean overtake lies 100% with the overtaker. Why the double standards Daniel? We can very easily assign 50-50 fault on the incident with Maldonado and Massa at Monaco this year as well.

More importantly, in 2010 I don't remember anybody calling for race bans on Vettel. Spa 2010 was his second, almost third big example of reckless driving. I don't remember anybody asking for harsher penalties, race bans, beheading etc. like folks are doing for Lewis this year.

In fact, Schumacher has had more brain farts, pushing and shoving, front wings taken off and collided with more cars in the last two years than any other front running driver. Why isn't he on the receiving end of the stick?

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Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......

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Where did I say you were a Vettel fan? Do you have comprehension problems? I said after the incident Vettel fans were criticizing Webber and vice versa, i.e. Webber fans were criticizing Vettel. Where do you come in the picture?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater :dozey:

This sort of topic is getting tiring to say the least when people are getting branded as haters for merely having an opinion.

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you could read it easily the opposite way round - you (people) said it wasn't a huge deal, and the problem was the Lewis lynchmob coming on here making out he's some pycho with a death wish and no respect for his or anyone elses life, demanding justice.

The same tiresome problem persists where anyone with the opposite opinion to yours gets called fanboy, biased etc etc. Its the other side of the same ****ty coin. There are some fans and some probable haters, but most people have a view on it and Lewis which is not as strong, but gets lumped in with the same opposition for having the opinion. The very same you've just done.

Other than one quoted point where it was said that the incident was debatable at best and the oenalty was probably fair, i've still not seen anything to suggest that Lewis was in the right or that the penalty wasn't correct. only defending that it wasn't SO bad that he was trying to kill or deserved race bans or worse. The first stones were cast from the "side" asking for more serious penalties, the "excessive defence" followed. IMO both sides and opinions were excessive, It was a stupid mistake, deserved a penalty and was dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.

It is a fact that Lewis does attract an immense amount of strong feelings both pro and anti, to the extent I've not seen since MS was in his prime. I have to say I see it differently only because I find myself defending Lewis more often than attacking him and I do have a soft spot for him without being a diehard supporter. In this case I am happy to fall on the attacking side to the extent, like I said, I agreed with the penalty and that I Think it was a careless and foolish move.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

But apparently because no accident happened then it's fine.

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No its not fine, there was an incident, that was punished. Cause and effect. If the effect had been greater, such as removing another driver from his position, or from the race, then the penalty is likely to be harsher. You can't punish someone for something that didn't happen.

Thats why we have things like attempted murder and murder. (albeit then we are talking about intent rather than carelessness)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......

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no, it means you're a webber hater obviously ;)

I agree with you, an opinion doesn't mean you have to be labelled as either a fanboi or a hater, its ridiculous, but people love to label, especially when it opposes their view as its the easiest way to cheapen the opposing arguement by making them see irrational. Thankfully most people see through it

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Originally Posted by Robinho

No its not fine, there was an incident, that was punished. Cause and effect. If the effect had been greater, such as removing another driver from his position, or from the race, then the penalty is likely to be harsher. You can't punish someone for something that didn't happen.

Thats why we have things like attempted murder and murder. (albeit then we are talking about intent rather than carelessness)

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Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

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If a car nearly hits me after I walked across the street in front of it because I didn't see it coming, should I be punished?

In your answer, keep in mind that this sort of incident occurs umpteen times every day on the street. I'd be willing to lay money that you and every other member of this forum has done something like that at some stage in their lives.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

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agreed, and in this case he was. the move was deemed dangerous enough to warrant a penalty, but a penalty for potential will never be as great as one for actual harm

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

If a car nearly hits me after I walked across the street in front of it because I didn't see it coming, should I be punished?

In your answer, keep in mind that this sort of incident occurs umpteen times every day on the street. I'd be willing to lay money that you and every other member of this forum has done something like that at some stage in their lives.

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I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

agreed, and in this case he was. the move was deemed dangerous enough to warrant a penalty, but a penalty for potential will never be as great as one for actual harm

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I agree, but my point is that Lewis seems to get involved in these sorts of incidents more often than other drivers. I think we need to start looking at a yellow car system where if over a year you get a certain amount of penalties then you have to sit out a race or you lose a certain amount of points. Penalties for things like not giving back a position (Lewis vs Kimi @ Spa) or technical infringements should not count of course, only penalties for contact with other drivers etc etc