Perhaps we could have the same from Vettels cockpit.....Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
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Perhaps we could have the same from Vettels cockpit.....Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
and on the white line as the front wheels begin to pass each other--and note the slight movement of Vettel towards webber in the steering as webber is actually moving over very slightly, there is no contact or interlocked wheels, then webber stops moving over and then flicks the wheel towards Vettel, then contact---had webber continued moving over, there would have been no accident:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/...c589cd7b_b.jpg
At first I thought it was Vettel's fault, but looking at it again, Webber should have gien way and preserved a team 1-2 rather than put both of them at risk of going off. It was a bold move by Vettel, but Webber defended too hard.
On the line, just, but not off the track. He had the room.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Look at the angle of Seb's steering wheel. That's not straight, is it?
You cannot forcibly barge another car out the way. F1 is non contact - or it is supposed to be at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimClarkFan
I pointed that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Earlier vettel had his front wheel much farther over on the white line, and then both started moving to the right, very slightly, with an almost constant gap until webber STOPS giving room, holds it straight for about a second, gives it the flick to the left, then straight again as contact was made.
In this photo, Vettel already going to the right and there is no contact until a few feet over to the right, after webber stops moving and gives it the flick to the left.
If webber was holding a straight line, the accident would have happened immediately before this photo--instead it happens a few seconds later, when webber changed his line from moving to the right, to going straight, to giving it the flick to the left
I can't help but post despite trying not to get drawn into this.
Unfortunately the clips themselves have now been removed from YouTube so I can't watch them again and will just refer to on-board shots in general.
When watching from the on-board camera it is usual to see slight movement of the steering wheel left and right even when the car is travelling in an apparent straight line. So if you do take a snap-shot frame of EITHER car, the steering wheel may well be tilted one way or the other but, as it is a single frame, doesn't really indicate much since there is no clue of time or what happened a split second before and after.
From actually watching it, Vettel steered towards Webber in a bid to give himself a better line into the next corner. From that I think that it is fair to say that Vettel caused the accident - not because he was attempting to pass but because as he edged in front he started moving over.
From the point of view of avoiding the accident (which is different from causing it) they can share equal blame. As both Vettel and Webber could have avoided it. Vettel, of course, should have not steered into his team mate but, since he did, Webber could have moved out of his way. Racing drivers have to walk a narrow line between standing their ground and avoiding accidents and that is up to them and their employers which is why I said could rather than should there.
]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84093Quote:
"Mark had requested the lap before to ask Sebastian to back off a bit. There was no way you could do that because of the McLarens being right there."
Horner acknowledged that Vettel had the faster pace at the time of the incident.
"It looked like Mark started to struggle with the rear tyres a bit more - that's what it looked like on the pit wall," said Horner. "And Sebastian, between laps 38 and 39, really closed up rapidly to the back of Mark, obviously got a run on him on lap 40 and they both found themselves in a situation they didn't want to be in."
Interestingly Autosport reports that Webber had on a previous lap radioed the team and asked them to tell Vettel to hold station (or slow down). With two McLarens not far behind them I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that maybe the team can share some of the blame, for not managing their drivers well enough as this situation brewed. I'm not suggesting team orders. If Webber was slowing and Vettel was stuck behind with a looming Hamilton the 1-2 would have been getting fragile...
The likelihood is that both drivers would approach it different if they could go back and try it again.
Before reviewing the data, Redbull was blaming Webber.
After reviewing the data, Redbull (after public apology to Webber) says that it's a racing incident.
I guess Redbull couldn't find Webber's 'flick to the left' either.
Conclusion: Just like St. Devote having better data than Bridgestone, Markabilly has better data than Redbull.
Or maybe Vettel should have preserved a team 1-2, instead of acting like a spoiled brat and expecting his teammate of acting like his slave?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimClarkFan
That's exactly the point. It takes two to tango and although Seb stepped on Mark's toes, Mark could see what was going to happen and kept his toes out.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nitromaster
But anyway I should stfu lest someone accuse me of trying to stifle their freedom of speach :rotflmao: