Month of May and a loss of Momentum.

I also do not dispute any facts stated by Waldo above however he writes from the IMS/IRL/Indy viewpoint. During that time frame the USAC sanctioned only one race, Indy. CART santioned all the others. CART owned all the cars and the teams except for a few Indy based small operations known for running at Indy only. CART was becoming quite successful and was under pressure to start new venues in US and Canada. Phoenix could be replaced with a new venue. Keep in perspective that we are talking about seasons with 20+ races per season with high car counts.

Granted greed got the best of decision makers on both sides. Feelings, egos or saving face became factors in those decisions. Mistakes, poor judgement and poor management played a role as well. Protecting one's turf and source of revenue was essential in both camps.

Finally, TG created another series. It took 12 years of split before KK gave up the fight. So there is one series now. TG with hind sight has admitted to some of his errors in judgement. I am sure that Roger, Chip, Pat, Gerald and Carl could all admit to their share of errors and/or greed led decisions.

It is time to move on. No amount of verbal bantering with each other will accomplish a thing other than perpetuate hatred.

Again, give it a rest and remember why we have this holiday off to go racing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dataman1

I also do not dispute any facts stated by Waldo above however he writes from the IMS/IRL/Indy viewpoint. During that time frame the USAC sanctioned only one race, Indy. CART santioned all the others. CART owned all the cars and the teams except for a few Indy based small operations known for running at Indy only. CART was becoming quite successful and was under pressure to start new venues in US and Canada. Phoenix could be replaced with a new venue. Keep in perspective that we are talking about seasons with 20+ races per season with high car counts.

Granted greed got the best of decision makers on both sides. Feelings, egos or saving face became factors in those decisions. Mistakes, poor judgement and poor management played a role as well. Protecting one's turf and source of revenue was essential in both camps.

Finally, TG created another series. It took 12 years of split before KK gave up the fight. So there is one series now. TG with hind sight has admitted to some of his errors in judgement. I am sure that Roger, Chip, Pat, Gerald and Carl could all admit to their share of errors and/or greed led decisions.

It is time to move on. No amount of verbal bantering with each other will accomplish a thing other than perpetuate hatred.

Again, give it a rest and remember why we have this holiday off to go racing.

---

This deal was done the first time in 1989 for the 1990-1995 seasons. It was to control costs and since CART was losing cars it would hopefully get some new teams to be started and competitive.

Kurt Russell and Mike Devin were designated at the technical heads of this and had final say but only the CART Board voted on it and thus it was approved. This was CHASSIS only, CART did have their boost rules and USAC theirs.
CART before the split averaged 16 races with Indy an USAC race.

Hope that clears it up.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nethead

Bob Riebe: It's been two years, and the open-wheeled-racing arguments rage on!

The Nethead here will try to get up to speed on US open-wheeled racing that I haven't really followed after USAC restricted Andy Granatelli's 1967 STP turboshaft racecar into non-competitiveness--and then followed that insult up with injury by banning AWD after Colin Chapman's ill-fated turboshaft Lotuses (Surely the plural isn't "Loti"?) nearly won the 1968 Indy 500 despite their restricted intakes. What BS I've seen at Indy...

At least I hear that CART and the IRL have re-unified, if only so that they could get within knife and straight razor range of eacn other...

So, Bob, please sum up the current status of US open-wheeled racing in three sentences so I can play it by ear in this topic--stuff I make up is always better than stuff that has even an iota of truth in it anyway! What sorta fuel(s) do they use now? What sorta displacement regs/boost regs/etc. regs are they using now?

I sent you a PM via www.motorsportforums.com, too. I may not be able to respond before Tuesday since I leave on a three-day in 24 minutes...

The Nethead here, survivor of the old AutoWeek forums :eek:

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Four wheel drive Indycars--greatly over rated.

People who founded CART--narcissistic morons.

Tony George--narcissistic bozo.

I have paid minimum attention to Indy cars since they became quasi-formula Honda.
There are gents here who can give you a much better analysis, of sorts.
Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Four wheel drive Indycars--greatly over rated.

People who founded CART--narcissistic morons.

Tony George--narcissistic bozo.

I have paid minimum attention to Indy cars since they became quasi-formula Honda.
There are gents here who can give you a much better analysis, of sorts.
Bob

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Bob Riebe: All you say is true, except for "Four wheel drive Indycars--greatly over rated"! No one at Indy who tried 4WD had the knowledge to make it work until Granatelli's people in '67 and Colin Chapman's people in '68. In fact, 4WD worked so well that Granatelli's turboshaft STP car shoulda won it in '67 and one of Chapman's Lotuses should have made it two in a row in '68--but parts broke. The concept was clearly superior, but the execution was flawed...Mario Andretti has stated that the turboshaft Lotus that he drove at the '68 Indy 500 was the best racecar he had ever driven. It would not surprise me to hear that Parnelli Jones said something similar about the turboshaft one-off that he drove in the '67 Indy 500.

Seeing the potential breakthroughs in technology here, USAC promptly banned 4WD, thus ending forever any lingering thoughts that the Indy 500 is/was "the pinnacle of automobile racing". The Japanese will have to show the world yet again that great technology competently manufactured will kick ass anywhere, anytime.

But it was what it was and we'll likely never see turboshafts or 4WD at Indy ever again.

Roadracing:

Around the time that AutoWeek shut down their forums for a lengthy re-working (two years ago now?), the Ford GT was a fast, powerful, good-braking, good-handling street car (which Michael Schumacher lauded as "Astonishing!" after he drove one). This year, the supercharged 5.4L V8 has been replaced by a naturally-aspirated 5.0L V8 and has won all four 2008 FIA GT3 races this year, as well as a second and a first in Brazil's 2008 two GT3 races and two firsts and a second in Germany's 2008 four GT3 races. The 5.0 now used in these re-engined Ford GTs is a Roush-Yates developed version of the 5.0 R50 'Cammer used in the Mustang FR500C and Mustang FR500GT4. The Ford GTs are pretty difficult to get unless you fork over the eBay bucks--so Ford has quietly re-opened the chassis assembly line for those who order them for racing purposes only. How much of a complete Ford GT you get is not known to the Nethead here, and I'll hazard a guess that you have to purchase the 5.0 'Cammer separately from Roush-Yates Engines. The engines look externally identical to Ford's most recent crate engine, the 4.6L "Aluminator", that was first shown at last year's SEMA convention.

Whether Matech GT Racing has plans for an eventual assault on LeMans the Nethead here does not know, but Koenigsegg says they are thinking about it, and are developing a 600 HP 5.0L naturally-aspirated version of their twin supercharged 'Cammer to power the Koenigsegg CCGT. Will it be ready for June of '08? The Nethead here thinks not because it is an after-hours project at Koenigsegg--an assault on LeMans takes more than a hobby effort. I'll see if I can find a 2008 LeMans entry list.

I'm gonna "Submit Reply" now just in case this forum has a time-out!

Nethead:
I saw the PM but outside of the quick reply here, I have been gone.
I'll give you a PM later.

Bob
PS--The Parnelli Jones johnny Lighting team used 4WD Lolas, they did not like them.
To much work for rewards gained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Nethead:
I saw the PM but outside of the quick reply here, I have been gone.
I'll give you a PM later.

Bob
PS--The Parnelli Jones johnny Lighting team used 4WD Lolas, they did not like them.
To much work for rewards gained.

---

Bob Riebe: Then I have something screwed up--the Lightnings were post-1968 if I am not mistaken. If they were 4WD, then the Nethead here is wrong about 4WD being banned by USAC in '68! :confused:

Bob Riebe: Per www.planetlemans.com, which has a provisional entry list for the event, there are no Koenigsegg entries yet--and time must surely be running out for entering the 2008 LeMans. 'Just as well--a hobby effort is hardly what it takes to be competitive...

On to other things. Retired golfer and retired racecar driver Eric de Doncker drove his #98 Mustang FR500GT4 (a tribute to the late Ken Miles's G.T. 350 circa 1965/1966) to the FIA GT4 European Driving Championship in the 2007 inaugural year and has a good lead in this year's championship (now sporting #1 as the reigning champion instead of last year's #98). He sold last year's car--what I would have given to have bought that baby for my personal enjoyment! I'm sure the purchaser gave more for it than the Nethead here could have given in my wildest dreams! Every race he has to confront a half-dozen Aston-Martin Vantage N24s, various tuner 350Zs, Lamborghini Trofeos, Porsche Caymans, and tuner BMW Z4s--the man likes his challenges! He came out of retirement because of his lifetime admiration of Ken Miles, and he's done ol' Ken proud! He may be one of Europe's oldest racecar drivers, but he's still a fox when it comes to getting the most out of the limited sets of tires allowed in the series (which have to last through two races). Let's hear it for the old dudes!! :up:

Bob Riebe: Monitor "Starter" deleted a posting to you from me as it was off-topic for the "Month of May" thread. No problemo.

Is there a non-open-wheeled roadracing topic in motorsportforums that you post in? As indicated in the three or four postings I've made in this forum, opened-wheeled racing is not my forte--it has too little relevance to vehicles I own and drive. I used to follow USAC in the late '60s, but disowned them over the turboshaft/4WD nonsense. For awhile, I then followed Formula 1--but with the death of Jim Clark and the USAC-like diddling with 1.5 liter turbocharged engines I found myself struggling to maintain interest in that, too.

If there isn't a non-open-wheeled roadracing topic in motorsportforums that you like, I'll discuss roadracing with you in whatever other roadracing/motorsports/general automotive/series-affiliated or magazine-affiliated forum you prefer. Just name the forum and the thread and I'll register there and we can pick up where we left off.

There is a Canadian forum I frequent, if you're interested. It is a general automobile forum, therefore it is not restricted to open-wheeled racing or even to motorsports. Let me know...

I've asked "Starter" to be patient 'til we can re-convene in a non-open-wheeled roadracing thread in this forum or in some other forum--so I hope this posting will remain undeleted long enough for me to read your reply.

BTW, I have not found the PM that you sent. Please re-send it, and also consider posting the essentials in your reply to this posting just in case.

Thanks,

The Nethead here

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nethead

Bob Riebe: Then I have something screwed up--the Lightnings were post-1968 if I am not mistaken. If they were 4WD, then the Nethead here is wrong about 4WD being banned by USAC in '68! :confused:

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December 31st, 1969.

The first 4 Wheel Drive Car was the STP Novi #9 in 1964 that drove through the fire and out of the race. Same car in 1965 with Bobby Unser up in both.

USAC GOT RID OF 4-WD BECAUSE OF NO DIRECT AUTOMOTIVE APPLICATION.

Cars that ran 4-wd not turbine
1968: Al Unser see my 1968 thread
1969 Bobby Unser Lola Turbo/offy
Mark Donohue Lola Turbo/offy
Bud Tingelstad Lola Turbo/Ford