Independence

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Originally Posted by Daniel

At the end of the day there were reasons the US didn't come steaming in with the cavalry though aren't there :) If you look deeper into things the USA did help you by financially running the USSR into the ground with the arms race. Credit where credit is due I say! ;)

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Sorry but I don't delude myself they did it for us. It was in USA's interest to weaken its rival. In the meantime we weren't patiently waiting the right moment. We were deported, arrested, tortured, living in cold and dark, etc. Some of us survived, many of us died in the communist prisons.

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Originally Posted by Mark

If you are trying to say the US/UK should have pushed back the Soviets from Eastern Europe? Come on, we'd just endured 6 years of total war, we didn't have the capability to do anything.

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Of course not. It was easier to sacrifice some unknown people from the east. Who had to endure only other 50 years.
Now seriously, I can't understand how USA as a winner of the war accepted the situation.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Of course not. It was easier to sacrifice some unknown people from the east. Who had to endure only other 50 years.
Now seriously, I can't understand how USA as a winner of the war accepted the situation.

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Are you 100% sure that the US knew for sure what was going to happen to you?

Even if they did what solution was there in the short term? I didn't have to live through most of it but a cold war is usually better than a World War in my humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Sorry but I don't delude myself they did it for us. It was in USA's interest to weaken its rival. In the meantime we weren't patiently waiting the right moment. We were deported, arrested, tortured, living in cold and dark, etc. Some of us survived, many of us died in the communist prisons.

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I think you should go and watch Charlie Wilson's War. It'll make you realise that the USA's intentions aren't always so selfish but you will see that their execution sucks at times.

I can't possibly begin to understand what it would be like to live in a county where you could be deported, arrested, tortured, living in the cold and dark. I'd be lying if I said I feel your pain or something empty like that. I've always been a free person thankfully so for me to say I feel what you felt would be a straight up lie.

I think in the end what happened was the lesser of two evils for the world in general. A lot of people were tortured and killed but for a much much higher number of people the cold war scarcely interupted their lives at all. I don't see how out and out war can be preferable to that for the whole world.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Of course not. It was easier to sacrifice some unknown people from the east. Who had to endure only other 50 years.
Now seriously, I can't understand how USA as a winner of the war accepted the situation.

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Accepted is a bit strong, tollerated would be closer to the mark. I go back to my previous point, it's not like the USA or UK could have done anything about it even if they had wanted to. The only way to have solved the problem was to go to war with the Soviets, a war they could quite probably have lost, then where does it leave us?

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Originally Posted by Mark

Accepted is a bit strong, tollerated would be closer to the mark. I go back to my previous point, it's not like the USA or UK could have done anything about it even if they had wanted to. The only way to have solved the problem was to go to war with the Soviets, a war they could quite probably have lost, then where does it leave us?

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Shut up comrade Mark or the commisars will come and shoot us!

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Are you 100% sure that the US knew for sure what was going to happen to you?

Even if they did what solution was there in the short term? I didn't have to live through most of it but a cold war is usually better than a World War in my humble opinion.

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At least they could have warned us to stop fighting ourselves. Many people organised a resistance in the mountains hoping we'll get help. They finished tragically. So did their families.
OK, It's complicated but don't say they were angels.

P.S. Must go now. Too bad, the debate has become hot. A nice weekend to everyone!!!

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

At least they could have warned us to stop fighting ourselves. Many people organised a resistance in the mountains hoping we'll get help. They finished tragically. So did their families.
OK, It's complicated but don't say they were angels.

P.S. Must go now. Too bad, the debate has become hot. A nice weekend to everyone!!!

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Be assured that the resistance helped in the bringing the USSR down. Having to build nukes was expensive but so was having to supress the resistance movements. Everyone played their part. The Western World were just lucky that their part was a bit cleaner than yours. I'm sure if the situations were reversed you wouldn't have come in to save us at great cost of life to everyone and I think this is the only sensible way to think about it.

Have a good weekend :up:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I think you should go and watch Charlie Wilson's War. It'll make you realise that the USA's intentions aren't always so selfish but you will see that their execution sucks at times.

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If that's a film, forget it. I'm stupid but not naive.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

If that's a film, forget it. I'm stupid but not naive.

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Largely based on facts :)

Basically about the US supporting the Afghan's in pushing the Russians but ****ing up in the end ;)