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Young drivers grow in R2 class. R5 will be the step, just as Dimviii says.
On a national level they can grow in old N4 cars...
To me the problem is to have new drivers come in to the sport.
Simple one make cups in R1 class should be much more high-lighted.
I've read here many times that there was no point on runing older machines against the most recent ones. Why suddenly used R5's make total sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I agree that R4 may fail, but not for having close costs to R5, as those aren't so close as people are trying to suggest here.
Sadly, Oreca seems more interested in promoting their Le Mans racing protos than R4 rally cars and private R4 tuners are now a bit on their own, while the FIA, as usual, is washing their hands of it. Anyway, fingers still crossed for R4!
Even r2 is way too expensive for many starting drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
The fia should indeed create and promote a controlled one make cup with cars that cost less than 25.000€. With as many standard parts as possible and sealed engines and gearboxes.
R1 cars have a good price, but have way too less power to be attractive. What we need is something like the twingo r1, but with 180 or 200 horsepower instead of 130.
Why? The best starter car for me is the Opel Adam Cup which is in fact de-tuned R2 with stock 140 Hp engine and it absolutely works as Huttunen or Bergkvist show.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Why it works? Because it's easy car to drive and in the same time very close to the R2 (same base car, same gearbox etc.), i.e. it's very easy to step up from the cup car to the R2. The fact that it's using stock engine is the reason why it's cheap.
Yes, Adam surely good. But I´m talking on national level, not international or European level. Juniors/beginners always starts in their home country. It´s on national level there should be R1 cars or like in Sweden Group E/F. Everyone starts somewhere. But surely not even in an Adam Cup car. Costs for Adam? Not under 30000 Euros I guess ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Being uncompetitive is really just down to FIA choosing to cripple it with regulations to stop it challenging R5 though isn't it... so saying R5 is better because RGT isn't competitive is just circular reasoning. R5 is favoured because its faster and its faster because its favoured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
R1 is also quite expensive i bet... Older cars, built buy oneself in order to get the hang of it. In many countries even a roadcar can do the trick. There are also cup cars, that are cheap to build and maintain...not the best solutions however, but again, for a first car, why not.
Logan cup for example, if it still exists, cost around 15k i believe, with a a new car from the dealership.
Big flat strong statements invite questions. A) always about money? B) why is the word "sport" in the word? MotorsportQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I think American conservatives who think that all discussion is 7th Grade Debate club would say that is a False Red Straw Herring...Nobody has suggested that there needs to be a situation where money plays no role.Quote:
You can't create a situation in this sport where money plays no role.
Some people might be suggesting that its the role of the various ASNs ---who represent to overwhelming majority of people doing rally as a sport to try and find ways to moderate the role of sheer unlimited expenditure of money as being THE decisive factor is deciding results...so as to retain some element of sport.
at least in football you can be fairly certain that whoever wins was "the best" team/people/person...That day.Quote:
If You want to see where people with zero money can get on the top level follow football. It works there.
Yes, that's true...Quote:
R4 will likely never work in Europe. For being a competitor for R5 they are too slow and for being a healthy second level they are too expensive.
makes total sense vs an R4 car due to same +- costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
another problem we havent mention if i remember correct, is that if you are for example at Spain,Italy,Portugal,Finland,GB,France and running a R4 car,you havent got a chance/car at yours country wrc round, to compare/be competetive with wrc2 drivers.
Another reason is the much less money will cost this car due to less buy demand worldwide.
Another reason is if these cars have some developments ''problems'' are these builders capable to solve the problems?
The last one dont take it as a small ''problem'' We have seen various such cases from wrc level teams.
Couldn't agree more. Current technology level is not enough for the restrictions over RGT class.Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelBen