Mobile phones & tablets thread

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

But then what more do they do?

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1. Social Media[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
2. Magazines / newspapers[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
3. Instant messaging / online phone calls[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
4. Email[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
5. Books[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
6. Music[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
7. Films[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
8. Podcasts[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
9. TV[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
10. Alarm clock[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
11. Radio[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
12. Photography[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
13. Word processing[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
14. Spreadsheets[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
15. Presentations[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
16. PDF viewing[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
17. Financial management[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
18. Games[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
19. Musical instruments / composing[/*:m:3vhei2kb]
20. Drawing / painting[/*:m:3vhei2kb]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

That's a wrong comparison IMO.

Ferrari make very well engineered performance cars, which are at least on par if not better than its competitors like Lamborghini, Mclaren etc. And they charge a premium partly because it's an established marquee, has rich racing history, the cars look good and have the performance to boot.

Apple makes overpriced, under-performing products by making them pretty and selling it to gullible customers with flashy TV and print ads and by having futuristic looking showrooms (Ooh, everything is white, don't bring dirt in). Its main competitors don't get the same love when they put much better performing hardware on the table at lesser or around the same price. They are deemed cheap because they don't have the bitten apple logo on them.

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That's a rather broad (I would say, largely inaccurate) generalization in regard to Apple's market success. It over-simplifies and dismisses far too many of the underlying reasons for that success.

But... in the same way that Apple products are "overpriced", so are those from Ferrari, McLaren, etc. Ferrari is an established marque, and so is Apple. In fact, the Apple brand ranked higher than Ferrari in a global brand survey a couple of years ago. Other highly placed brands in the survey were Louis Vuitton, Hermes and Gucci. Ferrari has a rich racing history and Apple has a rich computing history. And like Apple, Ferrari charges a generous premium (around 15%, which is pretty well unheard of in automotive)... and they get it because the demand is there - same with Apple. And let's be honest, though I wouldn't mind having a Ferrari 458, for the $220K they charge, I could buy three nicely optioned Corvette Z06's. And the Ferrari isn't 3x the car that the Corvette is. It isn't 3x as fast (top speed), 3x as quick on a road course, isn't 3x the quality and doesn't stop in 1/3 the distance. Now, I could probably pick up 3x as many siliconed, botoxed, mini-skirted, 20-something mall rats with the Ferrari. But I don't see that as a compelling enough reason to buy into that club. Just like with some Apple products and the Apple logo, with Ferrari you pay a premium for the prancing horse logo. And like Ferrari, Apple products tend to hold their value much better than most competing brands.

In looking hard and close at various computers last year, what I found with Apple was that their machines had very high quality and performance rankings from objective sources ( ;) ), were extremely well engineered and were quite versatile and easy to set-up and use. The customer service was also top ranked. As I've mentioned here previously, I'll happily spend a weekend working on a car. But I have no desire to tinker with a computer for more than about 20 minutes. And what I found with more than a few other computer brands was good spec sheets but a cobbled together, cheap feel, when it came to materials, design and assembly. Mind you, that wasn't across the board for all other brands, but I saw it enough that I elected not to take a chance. So Apple's current popularity within the enterprise suggest that it is more than just Apple fanbois buying these things. For the past two quarters or so, Apple computers have been the only personal computers to show meaningful sales growth. And many have been PC converts (like myself).

But as has been said here in relation to various tablets, people have to review the data and make whatever decision they feel is appropriate for them. The only person who truly knows your needs is you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

1. Social Media[/*:m:308760lf]
2. Magazines / newspapers[/*:m:308760lf]
3. Instant messaging / online phone calls[/*:m:308760lf]
4. Email[/*:m:308760lf]
5. Books[/*:m:308760lf]
6. Music[/*:m:308760lf]
7. Films[/*:m:308760lf]
8. Podcasts[/*:m:308760lf]
9. TV[/*:m:308760lf]
10. Alarm clock[/*:m:308760lf]
11. Radio[/*:m:308760lf]
12. Photography[/*:m:308760lf]
13. Word processing[/*:m:308760lf]
14. Spreadsheets[/*:m:308760lf]
15. Presentations[/*:m:308760lf]
16. PDF viewing[/*:m:308760lf]
17. Financial management[/*:m:308760lf]
18. Games[/*:m:308760lf]
19. Musical instruments / composing[/*:m:308760lf]
20. Drawing / painting[/*:m:308760lf]

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That question was clearly a joke, and hence the :D smiley before that. ;) But let's compare these things against a laptop or a smartphone in the same price range:

1. Social Media - Can be done better on a smartphone that fits in your pocket. Can be done MUCH better on a laptop while you enjoy multitasking.

2. Magazines / newspapers - Good point and a plus in favor of the tablet.

3. Instant messaging / online phone calls - Much better on a smartphone that fits in your pocket. Very impractical and inconvenient to make calls from a tablet for daily use.

4. Email - MUCH better with a smartphone, better portability, fits in your pocket.

5. Books - Cornea bursting bright screen makes it impossible to read for long hours. Kindle or an actual book much better and cheaper.

6. Music - Better with a smartphone. Fits in your pocket, has awesome sound quality these days, and offers the same storage capacity.

7. Films - Much better on a laptop. Good luck trying to fit all you wanna watch on an entry level iPad with 16 GB storage.

8. Podcasts - Smartphones, a 10 year old iPod much better options.

9. TV - I guess I can see the use of that.

10. Alarm clock - Pfft! A Motorola brick can set alarms.

11. Radio - Yeah, sure, I wanna listen to radio. *See Music

12. Photography - Yep, it's a pigeon eating a drunk guy's puke. Let me whip out my 10 inch iPad to take a picture. *See Music.

13. Word processing - Crappy apps. Will take thrice the time whether you're typing or editing a word document. MUCH better on a laptop.

14. Spreadsheets - *See above

15. Presentations - If your laptop takes the same time to boot as an iPad, then you need a new laptop.

16. PDF viewing - $500 to view PDFs? No thanks.

17. Financial management - I guess if someone has $500 to throw on a tablet, they do need financial management. :p

18. Games - Are you kidding me? Same quality games that you can play on a Windows PC? Nope.

19. Musical instruments / composing - I doubt any serious musician composes using a tablet.

20. Drawing / painting - That is one thing that is a plus in favor of a tablet.

You're welcome. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I find that statement rather insulting. My wife is a very good graphic designer (head of Marketing now for one of Europes leading medical firms) and is very intelligent. She doesn't buy Apple products because she is gullible or stupid I can assure you. She prefers the hardware and software to anything else on the market and why is she wrong in her personal opinion simply because you think another option is better?

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Chillax dude, it wasn't meant to be a personal attack, nor am I doubting your wife's talent, and if I have offended you or her somehow, I apologize. It was purely my opinion and you shouldn't take it too seriously. I guess I made the mistake of generalizing, as we all do, because the biggest crowd I have seen using Apple products have been googly-eyed teenagers who know squat about smartphones or tablets. They just don't wanna lose out in the game of one-upmanship in front of their colleagues. The other crowd that I have seen are rich kids with rich parents who don't have to worry about choosing their next phone carefully.

I have loads of friends who are programmers, professional web/graphic designers, video editors, and hardly any of them use Apple products or want to. Maybe the video editors have to, as they require Final Cut Pro on Mac. Some of the designers have to use Android phones and tablets, Windows phones and iPhones and iPads because their jobs require them to do so, as they design apps for them. Very few programmers I have seen using Apple products, or even Windows for that matter.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Apple don't force people to buy their products and it has nothing to do with being an 'Apple Fanboy'. Thats a childish generalisation to try and devalue the opinions of consumers with a different preference IMO. I'm not an 'Android fanboy' because I've owned a few Android devices, at least I hope I'm not considered as such. You seem to list things you like about Android which I entirely agree with, but you are not willing to accept people might have preferences with Apple products? You can customize your iPhone if you so wish and no its not straight out of the box as you suggest. You get blank screens to which you can fill with whatever apps you wish. You don't get battery draining widgets like you do on Android but thats a preference only for some.

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Can you overclock or underclock your A5 processor or install an OS mod or replace the firmware on your phone like you can do with Android? Can you completely change the look and feel of every single aspect of your phone OS? No. Apple doesn't let you. It's like not even turning a single page of a book of what's possible.

Anyway, these things are not for the casual user, and I can understand that and respect that everyone will eventually buy what they want to. What I can't come to terms with is paying more for inferior hardware. That has always been my gripe with Apple products.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henners88

It was a ridiculous comparison I made there but that was the point. Theres a huge difference between a laptop and a tablet without weight even coming into it. I can see myself and others here are not going to convince you a tablet is very different to a laptop because after so many differences and explanations being pointed out, you are still determined to suggest you should be able to do your work and multitask on a tablet!! Ahh!! lol..... You'll be waiting a very long time for a tablet to completely replace a laptop because I doubt manufacturers are going to push away from the ethic of a tablet to suit a minority of people and it will merge into a market it doesn't need to IMO.

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The paths of a tablet and a laptop will cross eventually. It is inevitable. While tablets provide a midway solution, they still have a long way to go. You can see the tide changing already. Apple had to yield and put a better processor and HD screen for the ridiculous price they were asking for the iPad. Why? Because people complained. New tablets are now supporting multitasking, USB and HDMI ports, because of the huge complaints, and also offering physical keyboard docking stations, hell, Microsoft launched the Surface with a physical keyboard solution already.

Would these changes have been made if people didn't complain? No.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

That's a rather broad (I would say, largely inaccurate) generalization in regard to Apple's market success. It over-simplifies and dismisses far too many of the underlying reasons for that success.

But... in the same way that Apple products are "overpriced", so are those from Ferrari, McLaren, etc. Ferrari is an established marque, and so is Apple. In fact, the Apple brand ranked higher than Ferrari in a global brand survey a couple of years ago. Other highly placed brands in the survey were Louis Vuitton, Hermes and Gucci. Ferrari has a rich racing history and Apple has a rich computing history. And like Apple, Ferrari charges a generous premium (around 15%, which is pretty well unheard of in automotive)... and they get it because the demand is there - same with Apple. And let's be honest, though I wouldn't mind having a Ferrari 458, for the $220K they charge, I could buy three nicely optioned Corvette Z06's. And the Ferrari isn't 3x the car that the Corvette is. It isn't 3x as fast (top speed), 3x as quick on a road course, isn't 3x the quality and doesn't stop in 1/3 the distance. Now, I could probably pick up 3x as many siliconed, botoxed, mini-skirted, 20-something mall rats with the Ferrari. But I don't see that as a compelling enough reason to buy into that club. Just like with some Apple products and the Apple logo, with Ferrari you pay a premium for the prancing horse logo. And like Ferrari, Apple products tend to hold their value much better than most competing brands.

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Again, I'm not saying Apple is completely useless or that their products are bad. Why Apple products are so grossly expensive is my gripe. Saying that the Galaxy S2 was a better phone than an iPhone was my opinion. Doesn't necessarily mean that it would be a better phone for everybody.

Ferrari might not be 3X the car Corvette is, but will it beat the Corvette in a drag race or run circles around it on a track? You betcha, and by a big margin too. So, you are getting "SOME" thing for that big premium that you pay.

Galaxy S2 beat iPhone 4S on all benchmark tests done by any respectable phone reviewing website, and Android was voted better than iOS and Windows Phone 7. The Galaxy S2 is also around $150 cheaper than the iPhone 4S. What am I getting in the iPhone for that extra $150? The bitten Apple sticker? I can buy that for $0.20. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

In looking hard and close at various computers last year, what I found with Apple was that their machines had very high quality and performance rankings from objective sources ( ;) ), were extremely well engineered and were quite versatile and easy to set-up and use. The customer service was also top ranked. As I've mentioned here previously, I'll happily spend a weekend working on a car. But I have no desire to tinker with a computer for more than about 20 minutes. And what I found with more than a few other computer brands was good spec sheets but a cobbled together, cheap feel, when it came to materials, design and assembly. Mind you, that wasn't across the board for all other brands, but I saw it enough that I elected not to take a chance. So Apple's current popularity within the enterprise suggest that it is more than just Apple fanbois buying these things. For the past two quarters or so, Apple computers have been the only personal computers to show meaningful sales growth. And many have been PC converts (like myself).

But as has been said here in relation to various tablets, people have to review the data and make whatever decision they feel is appropriate for them. The only person who truly knows your needs is you.

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Are Apple products easier to set up and use for the majority of the people? Yes. Are they stylish? Maybe.

Do they deserve the extra money? NO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Can you overclock or underclock your A5 processor or install an OS mod or replace the firmware on your phone like you can do with Android? Can you completely change the look and feel of every single aspect of your phone OS? No. Apple doesn't let you. It's like not even turning a single page of a book of what's possible.

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I've used Android for several years now. I didn't like Apple's business model with the iPhone so I went for the Desire then the Sensation S.

My next phone will be an iPhone even though I still do not like Apple's business model. Why? Because despite having bought a top of the line Android handset less than a year ago it cannot handle ice cream sandwich without serious lagging and frequent crashes which have persisted despite a system reset and a cleanup of non-essential apps and files. I don't want to think about how less well equipped phones handle ice cream sandwich, and I note that some companies like Sony are refusing to allow the ICS upgrade on their phones for exactly this reason. Unfortunately for Google my experience with their new OS is so poor they've lost a customer. I'd have been happier without it or with a less ambitious but usable reliable upgrade.

This kind of nonsense is exactly why I use Apple computers. I don't give a damn whether my phone or PC is the latest and best. I just want reliability and I don't want to waste time tinkering with them to get them working. Nor do I want to customise anything and everything about my phone or computer, I am no longer a teenager nor am I a geek. As an ignorant gullible punter I'm glad to sacrifice the freedom to over clock blah blah for reliability thanks.

I bought my wife her first Mac last week, I had reservations as to whether she'd like it. A couple of days ago she said something that summarised the Apple experience to me. She said that she doesn't think about the Mac at all, she just thinks about what she wants to get done on it. Isn't that what most normal people really want their computers to be like?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Your friends in IT/programmers would not use Apple products and I'm not surprised at that to be honest. I can assure you in the Graphic Design industry at the moment everything is shifting back to Mac, at least it is in the UK and US from what I have experienced. Most of the jobs I see lately are Mac based whereas a few years ago it was going the opposite way. Product Design is still primarily PC orientated as programmes like SolidWorks, SolidCAM and AutoCAD don't run on Mac and these companies don't need to invest to convert to such systems. There are departments within my company which solely use Mac's however.

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Likewise in my field within medicine just about everyone I know has switched to a Mac due to a particular type of software being available for free which costs literally thousands for a licence on the PC.

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Originally Posted by henners88

All of the above are IMO much much better on a tablet in comparison to a smart phone.

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Please explain how is instant messaging, email, music, podcasts etc. better, convenient and practical on a 10 inch iPad versus let's say a 4.8 inch Galaxy S3?

Also, very intrigued to know which iOS games are better than PC games?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Its very clear you have very little use of any of the above on a tablet because I don't believe for a second you would have made some of the comments with experience I'm afraid.

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Nice assumption there henners. I could also assume that you have never once used a top of the line laptop the way you go ga-ga over tablets.

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Originally Posted by henners88

The books one made me laugh with your explanation of a cornea bursting bright screen lol. You might want to do a bit of research and rethink that one.

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No need. Had to use eye drops after I read three F1 Racing mags back to back on the new iPad with the retina raping screen.

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Originally Posted by henners88

If you can provide a link to all the apps currently in the App store that are available on PC I would be very grateful.

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You must be kidding, right? First of all, over 70% of the apps for both iOS and Android are based off of Windows applications, for example

1. Internet browsers.
2. Email clients
3. Instant messengers
4. Currency calculators
5. Language translators
6. Google Maps (wow, what amazing invention by Apple)
7. Google Earth (I think I first saw it in 2005 when I still had Windows XP, back when not even the first iPhone was launched).
8. Cloud storage clients like Dropbox, FTP Clients.
9. GPS (let's thank Apple for that too!)
10. Windows 7 gadgets for news, RSS feeds, twitter feeds.
11. Dictionary apps.
12. Photoshop Express (the good for nothing ******* child of Adobe Photoshop for PC)
13. Adobe PDF reader (another iPhone exclusive! :eek: )
14. Oh and Adobe flash, which Apple for some reason took a hell of a long time with. Is it still properly optimized for the iOS? What do I know? I'm just talking crap from my imagination.
15. Radio
16. Instagram (Take a picture and throw a filter on it. Wow, how would it have been possible without Apple??)


Why did all these transition from Windows to iOS and Android? Because surprise, surprise, Windows was there first, and people wanna do things on their phones which they do on their computer. The rest of them are specific OS and phone based apps which wouldn't work on Windows and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm showing this around work tomorrow as I discussed this on my lunch hour today with a few of my colleagues and this thread is developing some gems. :)

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Happy to know I'm providing entertainment Henners. :) Although sounds like quite a sad place to work if this thread makes people at your work laugh. :(

:p

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Originally Posted by henners88

I've just read the post on my phone and do you know what? I do have answers for all of the above but I've reached the stage where I don't care whether you listen to me or not lol. Plus you can't quote and modify easily on Android so that doesn't help. I've said everything I've wanted to for now, take it how you will, but goodnight and happily laptopping...

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

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You mean to say all those long ass replies weren't typed on your tablet?? :mad:

:p

You can't quote or modify easily on iOS either, especially on that dinky 4S screen. :D

G'night from my side too. I think the discussion of Mac vs PC, Apple vs Sensible Products :p is eternal and will only go in circles. And while it's so much fun, unfortunately it's late and I have a crappy work schedule for the rest of the week. Enjoy your tablets. :)

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I've used Android for several years now. I didn't like Apple's business model with the iPhone so I went for the Desire then the Sensation S.

My next phone will be an iPhone even though I still do not like Apple's business model. Why? Because despite having bought a top of the line Android handset less than a year ago it cannot handle ice cream sandwich without serious lagging and frequent crashes which have persisted despite a system reset and a cleanup of non-essential apps and files. I don't want to think about how less well equipped phones handle ice cream sandwich, and I note that some companies like Sony are refusing to allow the ICS upgrade on their phones for exactly this reason. Unfortunately for Google my experience with their new OS is so poor they've lost a customer. I'd have been happier without it or with a less ambitious but usable reliable upgrade.

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Are you sure it wasn't a shady app? :p JK. My friend's Nexus with ICS 4.0 has been running smooth as silk ever since he bought it last year. My Galaxy S2 with the ICS 4.0 update with touchwhiz interface also has been running trouble free, not one freeze or hang up or lag of any kind. Maybe it has to do with your phone's hardware, incompatibility or probably Samsung's touchwhiz integration lends itself well to the Android OS and that's why it's a chief competitor to Apple.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

This kind of nonsense is exactly why I use Apple computers. I don't give a damn whether my phone or PC is the latest and best. I just want reliability and I don't want to waste time tinkering with them to get them working. Nor do I want to customise anything and everything about my phone or computer, I am no longer a teenager nor am I a geek. As an ignorant gullible punter I'm glad to sacrifice the freedom to over clock blah blah for reliability thanks.

I bought my wife her first Mac last week, I had reservations as to whether she'd like it. A couple of days ago she said something that summarised the Apple experience to me. She said that she doesn't think about the Mac at all, she just thinks about what she wants to get done on it. Isn't that what most normal people really want their computers to be like?

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So, Apple is pretty much a convenience brand. You pay extra so someone else makes sure your computer runs fine.

Yeah, not for me. I usually pay half the money for PC components compared to a Mac, do the assembling and tinkering myself, takes 2 hours max to install the OS and all the other applications I need.

The PC I'm using right now, my current Win 7 and antivirus installation was done in 2009, with regular updates and small, puny maintenance, it has been running error free now for 3 years with at least a 100 applications and 2 TB occupied. No blue screen errors, no lags, nothing. Same goes for a Dell Inspiron laptop purchased at the beginning of 2011.

It isn't rocket science. All it takes is a little research and trial and error, but I can understand when people don't wanna waste time with that kind of thing. Apple have identified this client base and have done a pretty good job of it so far.

I'll stick to the last line of my previous post, so G'night and have fun with your apple!