The Ferrari thread !

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

That is exactly the point.

If Ferrari is such a national institution - not having started out as one as you say - and is THE draw and is tantamount to F1, ya da, ya da, ya da, why are there not more dreamy eyed Italian bambino's being groomed into karting, with a view to working up the series, learning their skills etc, to one day drive for THE team?

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How do you know they haven't tried? Italy is the centre of the Karting world, for your information. The number of Italian bambinos trying to succeed hasn't diminished over the years, as can be seen by the continued growth of Italian karting.

I think this may surprise you, but it's not as easy as it looks.

Nice try to flame-bait, but you need to try harder yourself. It is not as easy as it looks.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

How do you know they haven't tried? Italy is the centre of the Karting world, for your information. The number of Italian bambinos trying to succeed hasn't diminished over the years, as can be seen by the continued growth of Italian karting.

I think this may surprise you, but it's not as easy as it looks.

Nice try to flame-bait, but you need to try harder yourself. It is not as easy as it looks.

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Hold your horses (no pun inteneded) :)

No flame baiting here.

I am just asking the question as the nationalistic hocus pocus was not started by me..

I'm trying to understand how Ferrari can be this uber Nationalistic team, but does not have a regular influx of home-grown talent to showcase.

I am obviously not getting the point across.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Aha.

So, what happens if, one day, an Italian driver is the best of the pack (I know, but work with me here, ok?)

Do Ferrari overlook him because of past precedent?

What about Luca's obsession with that dude that rides the bikes and a third Ferrari?

Rossi isn't it? Isn't he Italian?

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In case you havn't noticed yet, Enzo Ferrari passed away in 1988. He was the one who was reluctant to hire Italian drivers following Bandini's death.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

In case you havn't noticed yet, Enzo Ferrari passed away in 1988. He was the one who was reluctant to hire Italian drivers following Bandini's death.

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Indeed. 22 years in which to have a worthy home grown pilot.

So why was my previous post unfair?

Look,

My argument is as follows;

McLaren, as posted on this very thread, currently have an all British driver line-up. Great.

British team, British drivers. As a proud Brit (with little left to be proud of as successive governments have sold off everything we once had to shout about that was great about this country), it gives me something to celebrate, especially as both drivers and team are competetive in an all round competetive season.

Then, the post below pops up;

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Comparing the marketing of the Button/Hamilton pairing as comparable in any form to the Ferrari story shows a lack of historical knowledge.

Ferrari were intially a success story for Italy at a time when very little else was. Ferrari helped restore Italian pride after the disaster of Mussolini and the destruction of the country, politically and physically, during WWII.

Putting two British drivers in the same team in 2010 because Vodafone think it would sell some more phones is not in the same league.

Not by a long, long, long way.

When you understand the difference, when you can understand what Ferrari means to the Italian pysche, then you will see why.

Of course, the importance of Ferrari as a symbol of Italian success does not have the same gravitas if you are unaware of the history of Italy.

This is a different sort of nationalism to which I think Mr Devote is recoiling.

That nationalism, which I assume is the sort promoted by the original Silver Arrows, was indeed both brutal and ugly and sinister.

The national pride produced by the Ferrari story is an altogether more benevolent entity.

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So I am intrigued to understand how being nationalistic is OK for some, but not for others.

And to highlight this, I use the comparison and point out that Ferrari does not and has not had a competetive Italian driver on the books for quite some years.

Now, given how fervent Italians are, and how, if you cut an Italian in half it says Ferrari inside, why are there not more Italians in F1. I accept that not all will be superstars, but the point about Ferrari being Italy and Vice Versa just does not ring true when you consider that talent vis a vis F1 drivers is not there to represent the country of the Scuderia. If it was as hyped, everyone would be wanting to drive for their team.......

My point I guess is that maybe, just maybe there is a bit too much pomp, and not enough circumstance?

I am not being derogatory to Ferrari, nor to the Italian nation, just asking the question, and pushing the point.

It is enough for the Tifosi to see all drivers wish to be in a red cockpit , as I read it .
The way to the top step of the podium is to have the fastest , not the most Italian driver .
Drive well for the Scuderia , and you may become an "honourary Italian" for a time .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

It is enough for the Tifosi to see all drivers wish to be in a red cockpit , as I read it .
The way to the top step of the podium is to have the fastest , not the most Italian driver .
Drive well for the Scuderia , and you may become an "honourary Italian" for a time .

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Well, if Ferrari is winning, I imagine Italy is happy.

But how much better would that win be if it was via an Italian driver?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, if Ferrari is winning, I imagine Italy is happy.

But how much better would that win be if it was via an Italian driver?

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It is the car which is important.

Understand that, and you understand the difference.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, if Ferrari is winning, I imagine Italy is happy.

But how much better would that win be if it was via an Italian driver?

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When Enzo was around , he decided that no more of his country's sons would be risked at an Ferrari wheel .
It was different then , with so many lost each season .

There was great pride shown when an Italian took the wheel last year , but also great trepidation whether he would stand well under the pressure .

Sure , I think the nation would be happy to have an Italian champion , but clearly , the aim is for a red car to win , and the Tifosi understand this fully .

To the Tifosi , an average driver is not good enough , be he Italian or anything else .
And , if one that is good enough comes along , they will make every effort to sign him , happily .

And , judging from the decision regarding Fischichella's replacing Massa last year , the Scuderia is sometimes prone to letting nationalism creep in , albeit rarely . I'm not so sure he was the best available at the time .
But , maybe that's how they saw it .


It's really down to the order of importance .
To win is paramount .
I don't think anyone is saying that the Italian nation would be unhappy if an Italian driving for Ferrari won .
But , rather , that anyone , including an Italian , who didn't win , would make the nation unhappy .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

When Enzo was around , he decided that no more of his country's sons would be risked at an Ferrari wheel .
It was different then , with so many lost each season .

There was great pride shown when an Italian took the wheel last year , but also great trepidation whether he would stand well under the pressure .

Sure , I think the nation would be happy to have an Italian champion , but clearly , the aim is for a red car to win , and the Tifosi understand this fully .

To the Tifosi , an average driver is not good enough , be he Italian or anything else .
And , if one that is good enough comes along , they will make every effort to sign him , happily .

And , judging from the decision regarding Fischichella's replacing Massa last year , the Scuderia is sometimes prone to letting nationalism creep in , albeit rarely . I'm not so sure he was the best available at the time .
But , maybe that's how they saw it .


It's really down to the order of importance .
To win is paramount .
I don't think anyone is saying that the Italian nation would be unhappy if an Italian driving for Ferrari won .
But , rather , that anyone , including an Italian , who didn't win , would make the nation unhappy .

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Bravissimo!

An excellent description of the situation.