No, more like ”Craig and Mads not anymore in 2019”Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom206wrc
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No, more like ”Craig and Mads not anymore in 2019”Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom206wrc
Talking about silly season, it's obvious we all got it wrong regarding Lappi's next assignment. Instead of signing with either Toyota or Citroen, he seems to be heading to a Finnish bakery, in the role of an export manager.
https://twitter.com/EsapekkaLappi/st...25971498463238
Attachment 1651
Anybody remember Latvala saying in Turkey that we will definitely hear news of where he will be next year before Wales Rally GB ?
With just two more WRC events this season after Wales Rally GB, there’s plenty of attention on which drivers will be with which WRC teams in 2019. Paddon and Marshall maintain their focus on finishing the year with the best possible results but are naturally involved in the process. “Discussions have started in the background and we are sure more will become apparent in the coming weeks. We have options and that is the most important thing for now.”
https://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/pad...ency-in-wales/
Colin Clark's take on current situation for those who haven't heard it yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv_z...ature=youtu.be
- Praises Budar
I totally agree with that, compared to Matton so far he seems to have fixed most of C3 issues and got Ogier to join (Loeb's performance probably also helped with that). Compare that with Matton taking year off and coming back with both car and driver (Lefevbre for sure) issues while not picking any of the 3 VW drivers. Didn't look like kicking Meeke was his decision, but maybe he used it to argue that he needs funds for Ogier if they force him to kick Meeke.
- He thinks it's risky that Lappi will not be satisfied as 2nd driver at Citroen and says as Ogier he would prefer Breen over Lappi.
That's imo kinda surprising, even to the point when I would call that UK journalist bias.
- Clark sees Meeke as possible at Msport and says rumors say he is willing to drive for free. Mentions also the Toyota rumor but doesn't seem to believe it that much.
- Thinks Hyundai stays the same.
I think the free drive was for this year not next year...
Is Hyundai still going with Sordo and Paddon sharing the same car? I think it is not ideal to do that another year, hope they will take a definitive decision.
Maybe they take Mikkelsen into rotation as well? However, all three are good on technical gravel rallies, only Sordo has pace on tarmac (and tends to crash)
Don't think they will rotate 3 drivers.
Yes Sordo is fastest on tarmac but last year crashed out in 2 of 4 tarmac rallies, this year 2/3. Not much points from that.
IMO they really need to focus on fixing the car on tarmac. Mikkelsen struggles most relative to C3/Polo, but Neuville and Sordo are also down 2-3 places in tarmac pace compared with last year.
Last year Citroën negotiated with Ogier about a possible transfer. But then without success. "At that time, Ford seemed motivated and wanted to help us, but I was a little disappointed on this issue, and the anticipated support was not yet available and continued under these conditions was not possible for me," said Sébastien Ogier.
Ogier tried to push the Ford concern: "I gave the Ford an ultimatum: Either we get official factory support, or there's a chance we can decide for an alternative." But no changes have been made to the Ford, so the French has accepted the Citroën offer. "I was sorry to leave Malcolm Wilson and his M-Sport because it was not their fault, but they did everything but Ford did not add."
Meanwhile, the conditions at Citroën have changed significantly - the team picked up as its boss, Pierre Budar. Since January, the team seems to have stabilized. The French driver has a much better relationship with Budar than his predecessor, Yves Matton: "That was one of the reasons that helped me make the decision," the rider agrees.
919/5000
Another important point was the improvement of the Citroën C3 WRC. Ogier did not just track the results, but a secret test was also organized to test Seb's car. "If he is able to drive at least in a front-run competition, you have the impression that he has the potential, but it is clear that it was important to seduce him, and in the test I made an idea and supported my thoughts of trying this adventure."
Ogier had previously revealed that his next contract would be the last one in the WRC. Citroën, the five-time world champion, will be running in the 2019 and 2020 seasons. "To commit to such a project only a year would be a mistake," says Ogier, who wants to achieve what Juhu Kankunen has done. "The idea of winning the title in the cars of three different brands is great and it motivates me. It would be a great way to end my career."
https://rallyzone.autoroad.cz/ze-sve...ri-do-citroenu
Sebastien Ogier believes his 2019 employer Citroen is ready to do what is necessary to regain its World Rally Championship supremacy after a period of "doing things by half".
Reigning WRC champion Ogier is leaving M-Sport Ford to return to Citroen seven seasons after splitting with the team that had given him his top-level break.
Citroen took Sebastien Loeb to nine straight WRC titles from 2004 to 2012 but has only won seven rallies since then and is currently last in the manufacturers' championship.
Ogier said Citroen team principal Pierre Budar had convinced him that things were now changing.
"Citroen comes out of a difficult period in rallying and I felt this year, more than the previous years, a desire to really give myself the means to find the level which was that of Citroen a few years ago: to do things well or not to do them at all," Ogier told French newspaper L'Equipe.
"We had the impression in recent years that they were doing things by half.
"It's all about words and it takes a lot of confidence because I cannot guarantee that everything will be the way I want it to be, but Pierre managed to convince me and I feel that we are starting fa great adventure."
Ogier has already tested Citroen's C3 WRC, in secret but with permission from M-Sport, in France.
"Seeing the car at the forefront on some rallies had already given me a good idea of its potential," he said.
"But judging by myself is something important that I wanted to do before committing myself.
"We did it, I was able to realise certain elements and this contact reinforced me in my idea to want to try this adventure."
Ogier's previous split with Citroen at the end of 2011 came amid a troubled relationship with team-mate Loeb.
But with seven years having passed and Budar replacing Yves Matton as Citroen team boss, Ogier said previous events were no longer on his mind.
"I kept only the good memories of that time," he insisted. "It is useless to dwell on the rest, which somehow made me grow up.
"On the other hand, the problems I had at the time were with a general management that is no longer there today.
"With the technical team, it always went well and that's why it was difficult to separate [in 2011].
"I felt at Citroen a new momentum at the management level. The contact quickly went very well with Pierre.
"It was much easier to talk with him than with his predecessor and that's one of the things that convinced me to go in that direction."
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...things-by-half
Imho they have to take a definitive decision. Rotation is never good long term because drivers need stability to perform at their high. This year they made rotation because of contracts but now I think that they have to chose between a constant but limited supply of points with Sordo or giving Paddon another chance to go back to his high. With rotation they will not get neither the first nor the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
They can also say bye bye to both and bring Huttunen among the big boys to make some experience.
Oups :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
can somebody calculate how much points Hyundai gained from this drivers circulation?Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
The #6 Hyundai has contributed with 84 manu points this season, 45 from Sordo, 39 from Paddon but the latter has one event less. Comparing with Neuville who has 140 manu points it's less, but more than Mikkelsen on 55.'Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Hard to tell wheter they would have gained more points with starting Sordo or Paddon every event, only event when one was entered in a satellite entry was Portugal when Sordo drove the #16 Hyundai and finished 4th. Had he been in the main entry he would have contributed 12 manu points instead of Mikkelsen's 6, so it would have been a small gain.
thanks for te answer mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWorm
imho is a succesfull tactic for Hyundai when you consider that this entry gained 84 points when Neuville,the championship leader has 140.
how much points have gained Toyota from his second best placed driver? i dont ask about citroen/ford they are a lot behind at points.
But both have 5 manufacturer eligible starts. Remember that Paddon was nominated for points in Portugal so Sordo’s fourth place was wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWorm
If you look only at the results, the best strategy for hyundai would be to sack mikkelsen, and give both sordo and paddon a full championship.
Pretty pointless KT by C.Clark... told us nothing new factually, just total speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
And he said the Ogier announcement timing was strange... and then expained why it wasnt ! (for Ogier).
Nothing about the effect on M-Sport or UK fans directly before their home rally. Also nothing about the real reason for the move ie. Ford not fully backing the team.
BTW, what is behind the Meeke/Wilson fall-out in the past ?
I don't think you can really compare that. It's quite hard to understand if a full-time driver would have gained more than that. I could reply to you asking you if in the last 10 years the winning manufacturers ever rotate their drivers. Unless maybe some exception none did. But that is not the point. The long term is. Paddon will not be a good driver again driving half year, Huttunen will not get a proper experience if the third car will be shared by 2 other drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
A factor here is that the switching has always put either Sordo or Paddon in good starting position on gravel events, so for the team it's actually good to run split season, as long as they have drivers that accept it. Not good for those drivers in the long term though.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
For Toyota
Lappi and Latvala both got 74 teampoints. For statistics like this planetmarcus has the best table:
http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/
Results:Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Number of rallies Sordo retired from with technical issues: 0, number of crashes resulting in retirement 2
Number of rallies Paddon retired with technical issues: 0, number of crashes 1
Number of rallies Mikkelsen retired with technical issues: 4 (2x from 1st place, 3rd and 4th), number of crashes 1
Number of times Mikkelsen was faster than Paddon in same rally 3, faster than Sordo 0
Number of times Paddon was faster than Mikkelsen 1
If anything they should sack Paddon and give Sordo full season.
I don't really remember any KT which wasn't just about only speculation. Still worth hearing imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I like the KT, but considering he had no actual news I would expect him to just discuss the one actual fact - ie. why Ogier moved.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
He totally skated over this... no mention of Citroen's new money, any sponsorship deals, if Manu's title is an objective etc etc. Ditto the full effects on M-Sport of losing Ogier and Ford not being fully-comitted.
If you expect Mr Clark to provide solid news pre-press release or public interview, then that misses the point somewhat. Speculation and rumours from his connections, plus added opinion, that's what it's for and that all adds (along with this forum thread) to the fun of Silly Season.
But I wouldn’t expect Paddon to score many points on tarmac nor Sordo to do so on fast ralliesQuote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Clark knows sh*t, and it amazes me since he is working inside the series.
those kitchen tables are a good humour for me.
The only facts he ever reports are the ones that are already confirmed by a press release. That’s the same for everyone. Until that point, everything is speculation, whether it be on here or at his table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
He’s good on the radio (well he was) but this kitchen table shit is just him rubbing his ego and loads of fanboys telling him he’s a legend.
I bet he knows, and sure must have "insider information" (as the "inside" is relatively small bunch of people in WRC), but can't release any of that stop the press stuff on KT.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
the point isnt to understand .if a full time driver what he would do,but what the main competitor 2nd placed driver did at the same year.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
And Hyundais entry with the duo driver gained more points (till now of course) from Toyotas 2nd placed driver.
agree about the drivers,but just wanted to see it from manufacturer side.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Right, wrong by me.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
AFAIK he was (and I guess he still is) paid by the manufacturers, you can't do a proper journalistic job if you are paid by those you have to talk about.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
The public secret has been revealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Miika Wuorela is usually very trustworthy
https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/p...94t3&__tn__=-R
Quote:
Ace of Pace – World Rally Blog
Busy hands, slow movement
Oh, man! What an autumn it promises to be. And it has already started. Speculation is a really good thing, it keeps the minds of rally enthusiasts refreshed.
I have to admit that I am very eager to write the news among the first but there is a certain limit in everything. Perhaps I was a bit too anxious with the Toyota´s third driver. There are apparently other options too.
There is no reason yet to change my mind in front of pure cold facts. Before we have those, we may continue to throw some very wild punches.
I could say I am a big fan of Kris Meeke and to certain extent I understand the busy hands of my colleagues – especially the British writers. But I may argue a bit – in a sophisticated way.
To what question or need Kris would be an answer at Toyota? He is a flamboyant driver who has a great capability to take risks. Sometimes he succeeds, sometimes not. At Citroen, during 2018 it would have been clever to keep him in the team in all the rallies. Even if it started to be too risky and costly.
Thinking about Toyota gang. Just based on this year, it will most likely continue the same way in 2019 also. Ott Tänak is the favoured diamond in the team. JML has to settle in a supportive role unless he gets a brilliant start for 2019 and Tänak does not.
But the third car…there is no question that it needs to be driven by a trustworthy driver, rather young up-and-coming star. And sorry to say but Meeke is not an answer to any of these needs. It is only a logical thinking from my side. Feel free to have your own well-reasoned opinion – not just copying someone else.
Toyota has offered a drive for an Irishman but the name is not Meeke. It is Craig Breen. The offer is only for one year whereas Malcolm Wilson has offered 2+1 years – and most likely a vastly different position in the team. In Breen´s position I would not need to think twice.
Let´s wait and see. The game is on and soon we will know the facts. It is quite entertaining to read all the different opinions, so let´s enjoy about those as well.
Difficult choice I would say.
At M-Sport he would be nr.1 but IMO he still isn’t ready for that.
At Toyota he would be third number but would have no pressure and can develop himself further and choose again at the end of 2019.
Hmm... interesting. 2+1 from Wilson to Breen sounds a bit over-generous, but what do I know. Breen to Toyota could work, especially as Breen is definitely more of the profile TGR needs than Meeke (as Wuorela nicely pointed out). Anyway, all this just underlines the not-so-well-kept secret that Lappi is heading to Citroen.
And wouldn't that offer from Wilson to Breen indicate that Evans is out?
They have three cars. Suninen is confirmed. Still room for both Evans and Breen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
But that would leave M-Sport with only Suninen (?) paying for his ride... After Ogier and apparent Red Bull exit, how would the financials balance out in that scenario?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
What do we know about Evans, whether he's paid or paying to drive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
That indeed is really hard choice (if true). Still I'd pick Toyota as he is guaranteed good teammates for comparison and also very good car. Even if he is slowest in the team he should be getting podiums regularly (with retirements etc.). With Msport he might end nowhere with nobody to compare against.