no,last summer vacation was a long time ago...
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no,last summer vacation was a long time ago...
I thought so.
Go somewhere to relax for a while.
Just posted by Acropolis Rally, the official list of rallies for 2014. Everything as expected:
http://www.acropolisrally.gr/GR/2013/me ... -1900.html
http://www.maxrally.com/2013/09/27/in-m ... y-williams
According to information in Greece, Greek prime minister had a phone conversation with Mr Todt and gave him reassurance that there will be no problem with the financial matters, giving government support to the event. If this is so, then one just wonders.
Those damn europeans... they mess with the struggle of the pure greek people... i will cry today... a bit.
The article, in which it says "Suffice to say the pretexts for getting rid of this wonderful event are as flimsy as Chinese lanterns.", was written by Mr Jerry Williams. I suggest you try to remember that we do not have such names in Greece.Quote:
Originally Posted by NxOxT
P.S. In this whole forum, as well as all others I have had experience of, NxOxT is the only one that expresses hate for one country, it doesn't matter which one. I leave it up to the other members of this forum to judge the validity of the statements of such a person, in every sector.
By the way you wrote your previous post, it really deserves a bit of irony. People didnt reply to it in order to avoid beginning pointless argues, but at least one greek showed up to calm down the emotions. What assurance can be words on the phone? What do you mean one could wonder - that somebody is just jealous to Rally Acropolis and wants to ruin it? Okay I also don't agree with FIA's current policy to replace events for more money, but behaving like innocent victim is disrespectful, esepcially when you've recently had problems with paying.
If someone demands from a prime minister to give written reassurance to an ex rally co-driver, president of some sport federation, then he is totally out of this world.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
As far as the "innocent victim" is conerned, please read my previous posts, in which I said about the debt of the former organizer to FIA and the other mistakes that have been made. The debt DOES NOT regard Rally Acropolis, but another activity. However, the present organizer agreed to pay for it. Which is a mistake, by the way, simply because FIA supported the former organizer in any way when several people in Greece tried to show that this group of people did a lot of harm to the sport (and our wallets as rally drivers).
What I mean by "one could only wonder" is simply this: I have not heard of any arguments from any FIA executive against Acropolis. It would be OK if someone said that there are safety issues or that the stages are boring or that the general organization is mediocre or that the stages are empty of fans. I have heard only silence. So, how can I not wonder?
P.S. By the way, I doubt that it is good to have Rally Acroplis back. I regard that the 440.000 per year that FIA asks for it are plain robbery, and I doubt that the country is benefited any more by such an expensive event. The example of Sweden which sent FIA away might not be a mistake and I believe strongly that before applying for an event in the future there should be very careful study of the benefits-damage balance.
For the first paragraph, I will let somebody else here reply to it.
For the third, well, if you had learned that FIA wants more money from every country, you should not wonder anymore.
It was decided many months ago that Poland will be in WRC. So they only need to find an event to replace. And Acropolis was ideal for this deal...
Please explain why it was ideal so that I can understand it also. To my point of view, the first country that should have its event replaced is the one that has two in the calendar. But probably I forget the nationality of Mr Todt.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
P.S. There is no objection in having Poland back. As far as I know, it is a fast and interesting rally, with many spectators.
...Are there any rumours that Acropolis could be in 2014 ERC calender? BTW. When will be the ERC calender released? I thought both calenders will be ready during Porec FIA meeting.
Very doubtful. If there is a money problem for WRC, then it is many times bigger for an ERC event. The cost is still extremely high but the money from sponsors and government are expected to be almost zero for an ERC event. This is the reason that the former Greek ERC event, Rally ELPA, was stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
It looks like Greece dont have so strong "politic connections" at FIA...Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
I think not so big chances to have Acropolis in ERC 2014. But we will see...Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
I think that money is not the only problem why Acropolis is out of WRC...Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
let's hope we can have greece back alongside all of next year's calendar for 2015...
along with world peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Then please explain, because nobody says a damn thing. This silence is very annoying. On the contrary you just hear good things about the rally from the manufacturers, the FIA, the journalists. Maybe they are lying, but at least someone should say something that can be considered an argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
By the way, the majority of fans in Greece does not want Acropolis in ERC. To my opinion, Acropolis in ERC means permanent death for it, as the financial damage will be so great that no Greek will want to organize it again.
Very doubtful. Sweden is very unlikely that will be replaced by Greece. They are totally different events. There must be a snow event in the calendar, otherwise this is not WRC, it is shit. The same applies, of course, about roughness. WRC without a rough gravel event is not WRC. It is rather ridiculous even to use the term "rally championship" for it. And after the exclusion of Kenya, Turkey, Cyprus in its tough form and Greece, I am sorry to say this but this "rally championship" should rather be called "lengthy sprint championship".Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Replace Sweden and Mexico with a snow/ice rally in Canada. http://youtu.be/QdsW0SkrCS0 (Rallye Perce-Neige Maniwaki )
Allow the WRC to have studded tyres and a clubman rally for the locals on their usual bald tyres.
Then the 'long distance' cars can be shipped onto Argentina in May , followed by a rally in South Africa near Durban late June where it is fairly warm all year round.
From South Africa ship the cars across to Australia for early September. Then ship the cars to a Chinese round in October.
If Sweden stays in, a gravel round in Canada a bit later e.g Rallye Baie des Chaleurs
PR and emotions.Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
Have they ever hated a rally?
The main thing is that they had 13 events to replace in favour of Poland and the weakest link was the acropolis...
what manufacturer value has a financially dead and rotten country for the next 10 years ?? if we want more manufacturers in the sport we need to provide them with a good market... you cannot make any profit by selling tradition and other romantic crap... it was a good choice.
So, the agreement for Polish WRC round is for three years - great news!
No, but they have many times spoken about bad points in a rally, including Acropolis some times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
This time everything was fine according to them. And except of the money issue, which by the way has been covered completely by the present organizer, nothing else was said.
Are you kidding? You mean to tell me that before the financial problems in Greece, this country was a significant market for the manufacturers and now it is not? Those years VW was selling only 15.000 cars per year and Ford even less. Munich alone was a more important market than Greece or Portugal or Cyprus. These are so small that nobody ever cared about them. Please find a better argument to support your obsession.Quote:
Originally Posted by NxOxT
Yes, and you have to remember that this will be "multi-country event" as they call it. It means two days in Poland and one day in Lithuania. FIA was pushing organizers to do those multi-country events and those Polish ones agreed and I think that is also one of the reasons why Rally Poland will be in WRC in 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by kober
If the manufacturers interest for the direct effect in the markets should ask for rounds in States, China, India, Japan, Brazil etc. The benefit for them comes from worldwide TV, magazine and net coverage of spectacular and legendary events. Believe it or NOT, the hot cash was the only criterion for FIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
http://www.africatopsports.com/2013/10/ ... pour-2015/
Cote d'Ivoire wanna host a WRC round in 2015.
Even if it could not hapen, it would be great to see Bandana back in WRC :eek:
Ghana next door to Cote d'Ivoire has the oil money now, perhaps they could joint host an event with a run through the Tai Forest.
Certainly miss the raised suspensions and extra frontal protection of the 'Africa spec' cars.
I wonder how many taxis would need to enter to make up numbers.
they should first focus on bringing back the acropolis
They should first merge Deutschland with Alsace (France has "de-facto" two events in WRC, right now), giving Greece back its slot, then get on-board a Russian and Brazilian event, as both events could put fresh cash into the teams and the championship too.
All that IMHO.
Not bad idea for the mergeQuote:
Originally Posted by Motorsportfun
French round can go or merge i agree- preferably go as france has the monte. This my dream calendar - that mixes important car markets wrc needs to visit and classic events. NB: I know this will never be the calendar its just a bit of fun :)
1. Monte- Tarmac/Snow
2. Sweden( one day in norway) - Snow
3. Mexico- Gravel
4. Brazil- Gravel
5. Argentina- Gravel
6. Italy(sanremo) - Tarmac
7.Spain(catalunya- full tarmac)- Tarmac
8.Portugal- Gravel
9.Greece( Acropolis)- Gravel
10. Finland- Gravel
11.Russia- Gravel
12. Germany- Tarmac
13. Japan- Tarmac
14. China- Gravel
15. New Zealand-Gravel
16. Australia- Gravel
17.Rally GB( Proper RAC style)
I'd like to see them bring back the Kenyan Safari rally. Almost 10 hours of slowly driving through dusty gravel paths, glutinous mud, and deep waters. I'd imagine that the modern WRC cars would fare better than the old Group A and Group B cars in terms of reliability.
It was by far the most expensive event of all. Teams had special cars built solely for Safari and every factory crew had its own helicopter. It was also very dangerous event for everybody involved. The roads were not closed for public traffic for example and the safety of crews wasn't good either (especially of those without their own helicopter). It was nice adventure but especially in this case I don't think it's good to bring back all what was once nice. There is enough marathon events with similar nature.
Indeed, but it would still be nice to have an event that has the terrain and features that the Safari had. It would give the drivers another type of surface to master, especially if we're to believe WRC drivers are masters of all driving surfaces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That said, it wouldn't be the equalizer event that it was in the old Group B days because all WRC events seem to wrap up in the 3-5 hour range, and modern WRC cars never seem to break down. Even the modern Safari in the ARC only takes about 3 hours to complete. Back then, the Safari took 10 hours, and the more powerful but less reliable Group B cars would all invariably break down somewhere in the middle, while the less powerful 2WD Group B or even Group 4 cars would trundle along and finish the event intact. Ari Vatanen noted that he won the 1983 Safari in his Opel Ascona because he drove slowly enough to prevent the Ascona's rear axle from breaking (he also claimed his slow approach caught the eye of Jean Todt, who was expecting Vatanen to go flat out as Vatanen usually did).
On the other hand Eurosport tried to bring Safari in such reduced form back with the IRC but there was no interest from European teams to go. While there were events which managed to shine in IRC Safari was abandoned when nobody from regulars entered the second edition...
I'm still of the belief that rallies should be considered on the basis of their individual character, as well as the desires of manufacturers.
For instance, I think the championship desperately needs another snow event (or possibly two - it doesn't always snow on the Monte). Perhaps the WRC could steal the Janner Rallye or Sibiu Rally Romania from the WRC. Or go back to Japan, but relocate to somewhere like Nagano. South Korea might be a possibility, but if the Formula 1 Grand Prix was anything to go by, they'll have a tough time getting spectators. Somewhere in Russia or the Rocky Mountains might also be a possibility.
I also think a tropical rally is needed - somewhere hot and humid. Brazil, Malaysia and India all stand out as possible locations for such an event.
I wouldn't mind going back to Jordan, either. I know it was unpopular, but it had a unique surface and hot desert conditions which brought its own challenges.
And it might be worth looking at a high-altitude rally. When Formula 1 went to Mexico City, one of the big challenges the teams faced was that the thinner air at high altitude made it tougher on turbocharged engines.
Sorry but Mexico and Argentina are both in the championship for years...Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys
Please don't create confusion - the high altitude is much worse for naturally aspirated engines than for turbocharged ones. You know that supercharging (or turbocharging) was invented in 1920' for use in aircraft engines?
Yeah, it is an event that you have to sort of force teams to go to because of the expensive and unpredictable nature of the Safari. If there are no championship points involved in the Safari, or if one team has been so dominant all year and feels no reason to spend any money or effort to get points at the Safari (as Lancia did in the late 80's/early 90's when Toyota was still sorting out the Celica), then they won't feel compelled to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Perhaps it would be possible to bring the Safari back, but structure it as a conventional rally. No, it's not the same thing as the Safari, and maybe it shouldn't even have the Safari name, but it's better than nothing.