Hamilton: Maybe it's because I'm black

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Been over that. They both turned in too early. Only difference with the Massa one is that Hamilton actually was over ambitious.

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Can't believe people still think that Massa and Mldonado were to blame for Hamilton's brain farts! :down:

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Erm, sorry now but this is completely far fetched wishful thinking here. You're saying that Maldonado couldn't tell the difference in hearing a car two or three metres from his head and a one 100m in front of him? You're also saying that a car a further 50M back somehow made him believe Lewis wasn't there? This is desparate. Hearing a car 100M in front of you and a one 50 M behind is fine but the McLaren was right beside him. C'mon now, in fairness, he had his mirrors, he had his ears and a McLaren engine pumping into his ears and you say to me that he didn't know Lewis was there? If he can't distinguish between a McLaren right in his ear and two cars 100M in front and 50M behind him the man should not be in F1. The cars around him have nothing to do with influencing his decision.

I agree it's possible he didn't know Lewis was there, but that's only the case if he wasn't listening and didn't look in his mirrors or hadn't positioned them correctly. If an F1 driver hasn't done that then any incident that occurs as a result of that is his fault.

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You , sir , are really abrasive in your responses .

It is not "completely far fetched" or "wishful thinking" or "desp(e)rate" .
It is fact that the shoe had no sonic distraction in that approach , and that Maldonado did .

The degree to which you think it may have influenced the situation is nil .
I disagree .


You agree that it's possible that he didn't know he was there .

To suggest he "wasn't listening" is a little too much . That would be as stupid as to suggest he went looking for this crash to occur .
Of course he was listening .
Driving these cars around there is tough work , and one needs all his senses working in overtime .

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Originally Posted by ioan

Can't believe people still think that Massa and Mldonado were to blame for Hamilton's brain farts! :down:

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can´t believe you haven´t been banned for good

i still rate Hamilton-Massa at 95%-5% and at best Hamilton-Maldonado 60%-40%, both against Hamilton. Before you jump on me take a look through my history and check my support for Hamilton in the past. The Massa incident was stupid and pointless, although Massa was on a slightly odd line and managed to hit Webber, Hamilton was never getting through, the only pass into that corner is done before turn in, not at the apex.

As for the Maldonado incident, Hamilton failed to make it stick as he did with MS, and was only ever 3/4 alongside. Whilst Maldonado probably could and maybe should have seen him and taken avoiding action, the onus is on Hamilton to execute the move without hitting the car in front. Maldonado was always still in front. Either could have done enough to avoid the crash, but at the point Hamilton was on the iverlap there is very little visibility from the cockpit and the mirrors are at best useless when your in a braking zone and trying to hit an apex on the most difficult circuit of the year.

I like Hamilton, I think he's an exceptional talent, but sometimes he thinks he can do more than is possible. Sometimes that is to his credit, but on Sunday it was careless at best and reckless at worst. I'll happily defend him, but the Monaco incidents we not good. Although either in isolation would have been just an incident, the 2 together were clearly a product of frustration and over ambition. Not his best showing. I expect a great fightback in Canada, however.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i still rate Hamilton-Massa at 95%-5% and at best Hamilton-Maldonado 60%-40%, both against Hamilton. Before you jump on me take a look through my history and check my support for Hamilton in the past. The Massa incident was stupid and pointless, although Massa was on a slightly odd line and managed to hit Webber, Hamilton was never getting through, the only pass into that corner is done before turn in, not at the apex.

As for the Maldonado incident, Hamilton failed to make it stick as he did with MS, and was only ever 3/4 alongside. Whilst Maldonado probably could and maybe should have seen him and taken avoiding action, the onus is on Hamilton to execute the move without hitting the car in front. Maldonado was always still in front. Either could have done enough to avoid the crash, but at the point Hamilton was on the iverlap there is very little visibility from the cockpit and the mirrors are at best useless when your in a braking zone and trying to hit an apex on the most difficult circuit of the year.

I like Hamilton, I think he's an exceptional talent, but sometimes he thinks he can do more than is possible. Sometimes that is to his credit, but on Sunday it was careless at best and reckless at worst. I'll happily defend him, but the Monaco incidents we not good. Although either in isolation would have been just an incident, the 2 together were clearly a product of frustration and over ambition. Not his best showing. I expect a great fightback in Canada, however.

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Couldn't agree more. Sadly some people seem to idolise him to the point of trying to excuse his every action and find a reason why it's someone elses fault. Then we have spurious reasoning like the fact that Schumacher didn't want to be part of Hamilton's accident and let him through, therefore Maldonado is obliged to do the same.

If you speak out against Hamilton you're a hater, you can't win :dozey:

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Originally Posted by eu

can´t believe you haven´t been banned for good

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that door swings both ways

Surprised this is still being debated:-)
Has hamilton been penalised for this? or was it just a slap on the wrist from the FIA? As much as I support him and want mclaren to win, I dont think there was any excuse for his dodgem style driving.

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Originally Posted by eu

banned for good

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That's a Take That song, isn't it? ;)

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i still rate Hamilton-Massa at 95%-5% and at best Hamilton-Maldonado 60%-40%, both against Hamilton. Before you jump on me take a look through my history and check my support for Hamilton in the past. The Massa incident was stupid and pointless, although Massa was on a slightly odd line and managed to hit Webber, Hamilton was never getting through, the only pass into that corner is done before turn in, not at the apex.

As for the Maldonado incident, Hamilton failed to make it stick as he did with MS, and was only ever 3/4 alongside. Whilst Maldonado probably could and maybe should have seen him and taken avoiding action, the onus is on Hamilton to execute the move without hitting the car in front. Maldonado was always still in front. Either could have done enough to avoid the crash, but at the point Hamilton was on the iverlap there is very little visibility from the cockpit and the mirrors are at best useless when your in a braking zone and trying to hit an apex on the most difficult circuit of the year.

I like Hamilton, I think he's an exceptional talent, but sometimes he thinks he can do more than is possible. Sometimes that is to his credit, but on Sunday it was careless at best and reckless at worst. I'll happily defend him, but the Monaco incidents we not good. Although either in isolation would have been just an incident, the 2 together were clearly a product of frustration and over ambition. Not his best showing. I expect a great fightback in Canada, however.

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Good Post.

That is how I see it.

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Originally Posted by eu

can´t believe you haven´t been banned for good

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the only answer I can come up with is that internet forums would be devoid of activity if it was not for misinformed opinionated trolls (look at their post counts, always at least triple that of the intelligent reasoned members in a fraction of the time) and so they are essential for the forums continued existence.
no trolls no forum, simple as, sad but true.

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Originally Posted by Hitnrun

the only answer I can come up with is that internet forums would be devoid of activity if it was not for misinformed opinionated trolls (look at their post counts, always at least triple that of the intelligent reasoned members in a fraction of the time) and so they are essential for the forums continued existence.
no trolls no forum, simple as, sad but true.

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This fact may be true but I see one flaw with your statement... the laughable irony is that this is only your 3 post on the forum and yet all 3 of your posts have been to attack other posters.

It would appear that not all trolls have high post counts after all.

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Originally Posted by Cooper_S

This fact may be true but I see one flaw with your statement... the laughable irony is that this is only your 3 post on the forum and yet all 3 of your posts have been to attack other posters.

It would appear that not all trolls have high post counts after all.

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;) :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Cooper_S

This fact may be true but I see one flaw with your statement... the laughable irony is that this is only your 3 post on the forum and yet all 3 of your posts have been to attack other posters.

It would appear that not all trolls have high post counts after all.

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A bit ironic as well might be that it seems you're not recognizing that this poster just might have been here before .

You , yourself seem not to fit the mould of which he speaks , with only 429 posts since early 2009 .

The name "hitnrun" might have been a little clue , too .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

A bit ironic as well might be that it seems you're not recognizing that this poster just might have been here before .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The name "hitnrun" might have been a little clue , too .

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I did consider it a possibility of course but only admin would know for certain.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

You , yourself seem not to fit the mould of which he speaks , with only 429 posts since early 2009 .

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I like the inference, I have other interests that divert my attention away...

Unfortunatly part of the problem with the troll tag is that it is subjetive to our own opinions... such is life

I'm sorry, I've forgotten what this post was about? It seems to have drifted from Hamilton to Schumacher to Senna to petty jabs back and forth...

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Yes and the risk is that if you don't make the move stick and take the other guy out, that you get penalised.

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Not everything is black and white. Ever heard of a racing incident?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Couldn't agree more. Sadly some people seem to idolise him to the point of trying to excuse his every action and find a reason why it's someone elses fault. Then we have spurious reasoning like the fact that Schumacher didn't want to be part of Hamilton's accident and let him through, therefore Maldonado is obliged to do the same.

If you speak out against Hamilton you're a hater, you can't win :dozey:

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Oh but I do have a problem with LH and that he should exert a level of pragmatism in the final third of the season when leading WDC.

Apart from the pass on Massa at Loews, the other moves were certainly aggressive but racing incidents. Maldonado collision looked blatantly LH's fault byt after having a chance to review it myself the penalty was harsh but you could see it coming.

Of course his post-race comments didn't help and was better left in a private conversation but it wasn't as if he was punting cars left, right and centre.

Lets face it. Monte Carlo is a Mickey Mouse circuit and Lewis had his race compromised before it began. This left him out of position and frustrated. It was obvious he had to tray and make something happen.

The hairpin is always going to be a accident unless the driver getting passed avoids it. Lewis and Nico avoided the accident but others didn't and were not obliged to.

The post race comments were probably borne out of this frustration and were ill advised but no big deal.

F1 : Todt considered banning Hamilton after racial joke

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Jean Todt has admitted he considered banning Lewis Hamilton for six races after the McLaren driver's racial joke two weeks ago in Monaco.Enraged at having yet more penalties imposed by the stewards during the race weekend, Briton Hamilton - the 2008 world champion - joked that "Maybe it's because I'm black".Fearing a disrepute charge, the 26-year-old returned to the street circuit late on Sunday to apologise to the FIA, and made a further apology in writing."Lewis wrote to me and I wrote to him," FIA president Todt told British newspapers including the Guardian."I did not advertise it. It's between him and the FIA. I could have asked our judicial court to address the problem. We never officially opened the case."Maybe it would have been a better decision to put him to the court. To ban him for six grands prix.

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WTF? :crazy: I would have liked to see Lewis banned for a race for his poor driving, but I don't feel he needs any penalty for having a poor sense of humour......

Bahrain on and off and on and off; 21 races becoming 20; and now this. Todt's lost it.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Bahrain on and off and on and off; 21 races becoming 20; and now this. Todt's lost it.

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Hmm, indeed. I couldn't help wondering the other day how Ari would've handled this if he'd got in (although that was obviously never going to happen), I suspect that the Bahrain decision certainly wouldn't have been quite as ridiculous. Although I'm clearly biased as am a big fan of Vatanen and just find Todt funny to look at :D

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

F1 : Todt considered banning Hamilton after racial joke

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Thats a poor understanding of the term "racial/racist". You cannot be racial / racist towards your own race. Racism is defined as equally hating other races other than your own.

To look at banning Hammy for being a highly strung youngster with a big mouth is just plain old pathetic :down:

Well !! Will we see some racing in Canada this weekend or a procession, after you sir !
Lets hope Lewis is not too scared of having a GO and RACING,cos thats what we want to see.AND Coulthard and Brundle,dont air you views on whether you think drivers are guilty or not,let the STEWARDS decide please !!

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

F1 : Todt considered banning Hamilton after racial joke

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Love this: "I did not advertise it. It's between him and the FIA... I could have leaked the letter..."

So why mention it now, and why mention it could have gone to the FIA court and assume that would have resulted in a 6 race ban :confused:

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Originally Posted by driveace

Well !! Will we see some racing in Canada this weekend or a procession, after you sir !
Lets hope Lewis is not too scared of having a GO and RACING,cos thats what we want to see.AND Coulthard and Brundle,dont air you views on whether you think drivers are guilty or not,let the STEWARDS decide please !!

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Their job title is commentator - they are employed as they have professional knowledge, and can offer to the viewing public their take on the racing. I'd rather the Stewards did not decide, as most of the time they f*ck it up.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Bahrain on and off and on and off; 21 races becoming 20; and now this. Todt's lost it.

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What's wrong with a forthright opinion? Contemplation and what actually happened are two completely separate things.

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BBC Sport - F1 - Formula 1 gossip and rumours from international media

And Todt told the Times: "I could have asked the judicial court to address the problem..."

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Banning him would've just proved that what Lewis said was actually true.

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

Banning him would've just proved that what Lewis said was actually true.

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Exactly !!
And why did Todt,let it out,and surely he would have not been able to ban Lewis by himself

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Originally Posted by henners88

Indeed it would have proved his point somewhat.. lol.

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Interesing. Perhaps it could serve some good? A race ban i mean.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

Interesing. Perhaps it could serve some good? A race ban i mean.

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How exactly? The only person I can see that being good for is Sebastien Vettel.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Indeed it would have proved his point somewhat.. lol.

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Yep, and I believe that's why Todt was happy to leave it be as it was too.

I don't get it, we all moan about drivers not speaking their mind and voicing their opinion - when one does, he gets crucified!

I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton, but I applaud him for speaking his mind, and I was actually kind of disappointed he apologised for it after. If he thinks the stewards were stupid, or their decisions are a joke, why shouldn't he be able to say it?

Compared to the days we had the likes of Irvine, or Juan Pablo, the current crop of drivers are all very PR orientated. Almost robot like. It was refreshing to hear Lewis voice his opinion.

It was/is refreshing to hear drivers voice their opinion, however Hamilton went too far by claiming the FIA were racist. And I don't fully believe he was joking, more like a huge chip on his shoulder.

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Originally Posted by yodasarmpit

It was/is refreshing to hear drivers voice their opinion, however Hamilton went too far by claiming the FIA were racist. And I don't fully believe he was joking, more like a huge chip on his shoulder.

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Well after incidents such as Spa 2008 you can hardly blame him for suspecting it. Still, I agree that he went too far.

I'm all for drivers speaking out, for example reigning BTCC champion Jason Plato recently hit out at what he perceived to be unfair rules, but he did so in a more measured way using data rather than paranoia. If Lewis had any evidence to support his view that he was being badly treated then bring it on, but to make a crass remark about racism - even if it was intended as a joke - was pretty poor form.

I didn't like the outbursts neither of Plato, nor of Hamilton.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I didn't like the outbursts neither of Plato, nor of Hamilton.

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Don`t people want more outspoken drivers who say what they think? Kimi was attacked for not giving the media any ammo to work with, others are being attacked for being too straight in their sayings.

It is good luck I am not a formula 1 driver, the boards would go crazy after one pres conference with me.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

It is good luck I am not a formula 1 driver, the boards would go crazy after one pres conference with me.

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I can just picture it now:

Q: Garry, how do you feel about crashing in Q1 and not making the grid tomorrow, after the stewards ruled you couldn't be exempted from the 107% rule due to your embarrassing performance in practice yesterday?

A: Mutter mutter moan whinge senile blah stupid Schumacher blah whine Hamilton idiot blather feck drink arse girls...

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I can just picture it now:

Q: Garry, how do you feel about crashing in Q1 and not making the grid tomorrow, after the stewards ruled you couldn't be exempted from the 107% rule due to your embarrassing performance in practice yesterday?

A: Mutter mutter moan whinge senile blah stupid Schumacher blah whine Hamilton idiot blather feck drink arse girls...

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Apparently, it will all be the cretinous commentators fault - imbecile......!

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I can just picture it now:

Q: Garry, how do you feel about crashing in Q1 and not making the grid tomorrow, after the stewards ruled you couldn't be exempted from the 107% rule due to your embarrassing performance in practice yesterday?

A: Mutter mutter moan whinge senile blah stupid Schumacher blah whine Hamilton idiot blather feck drink arse girls...

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Drink?!?!?!!?! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH YESH!!!!!

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