Please Mikko, something different this time!! (an open letter)

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Originally Posted by noel157

Hypothetically Tanak would be an excellent choice.

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Tanak had his chance... how he must prove himself once more if he wants another.

Mikko is quite fast and he is "point collector". It isn´t bad and each team needs such man. BUT...Few years ago he was that guy who was veery near to beat Loeb and now he isn´t that type of guy. I don´t think it will change during the season.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

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Originally Posted by noel157

Hypothetically Tanak would be an excellent choice.

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Tanak had his chance... how he must prove himself once more if he wants another.

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Greg just imagine if Latvala,Neuville,Ogier had 1 year chance only.
1 year is just not enough, if you want to see the true potential of a new driver imho.
Of course these years there are not factories that they will support such a programm,except if you have deep pockets.

Difficult to say with only one season if Tanak is the next Ogier or the next Novikov.

To me, it all started with SS8 and 9 of 2009 Wales Rally in a straight fight against Loeb for the title.
He blamed the car for losing 22 sec before Wilson Sr publicly said after service nothing was wrong.
He had the title in his driving.
It was tantalizing and failing at it put him down for a whole year. He actually never recovered despite an excellent 2011 season and a decent 2012 but something was broken.
The massive crash in Finland 10 just piled to that before Ogier took over.

Hirvonen is now cruising for a living.
He manages to maintain a certain level of speed which should ensure him a paid seat and/or attract sponsors.

In his book and interviews, Loeb has more compliments to Hirvonen than any other title contender he had.

If he was able to keep Ogier under pressure like he was able with Loeb, I'm not sur that Seb 2 will resists.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

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Originally Posted by noel157

Hypothetically Tanak would be an excellent choice.

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Tanak had his chance... how he must prove himself once more if he wants another.

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Greg just imagine if Latvala,Neuville,Ogier had 1 year chance only.
1 year is just not enough, if you want to see the true potential of a new driver imho.
Of course these years there are not factories that they will support such a programm,except if you have deep pockets.

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I agree with that... but all the drivers you mentioned spent a lot of money (or their sponsors) before going to factory cars... if you do not have enough like Tanak then you have to make the best out of everything you get.

I do believe that Tanak, Novikov, Aava had the ability to win stages and rallies in due time but they needed a lot of time and money to do so.

Only Ogier showed that he has the appropriate tools early in his WRC days to be champion.

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Originally Posted by COD

My point was, at the time he was with Subaru, he was crap. And at THAT time, there were a lot more talented who should have gotten the Ford seAt instead of Mikko. Mikko got it and those others were forgotten, that is why There was only Loed and Mikko was the best of the rest. Had it gone other way, there might have been somebody other that Grönholm who could have challenged Loeb on speed.

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I think one of the reasons he got the 2006 Ford seat are very strong performances with a privateer programme in a Ford in 2005. And I think he deserved the seat, since it was a 2nd seat alongside the 2nd best driver of the decade. Once Gronholm went into retirement, Mikko was fast enough to lead the team. Unfortunately for Ford, I am pretty sure there wasn't a man who would challenge Loeb better at that time than Mikko.

Anyway I expected more from him in Sweden, but at least he proved there is still some speed. But I am afraid, as much as I like Mikko as a character, his best days as a professional rally driver are definitely behind him.

hirvonen is a very likeable driver

but very sorry to say that he will never win an event and will not be anymore than a 2nd possibly 3rd driver inn a team

he has never been fast and I wonder how long it will take before wilson comes out of the hirvonen dream

As said before: not fast? What is fast. Have you seen Mikko in reality on stages? If you compare to the others he´s one of the fastest. Not the fastest. But still.

So who will replace him at Ford? Which drivers has competence? Mikko still top5 driver in WRC.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

As said before: not fast? What is fast. Have you seen Mikko in reality on stages? If you compare to the others he´s one of the fastest. Not the fastest. But still.

So who will replace him at Ford? Which drivers has competence? Mikko still top5 driver in WRC.

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Herregud Per. Can you do some simple math for these guys who bläddra "Milkko isn't fast"
Remember when all the only eever rallied a key-board on a desk boys were slitting their wrists and shooting themselves because MW was 'wasting a seat' on his son "who was so slooooooooooooooow, oh no!!"

Or when they said same about that crazy Norman who lives in Varmland now--va fan heter han? OH Solhberg!
Do the total minutes os SS in a VM rally and divide the times and you'll see its maybe less than 1% faster from Hirvonen to winner.
Less than 1%---meaning 99.something % as fast.

I ask you because i have to get my girls to school.

Well, both of you sirs, I've seen Mikko on stages, NORF stages to be in particular. And even the same stages. And even some same locations of the stages. There is one thing I've notice and that is the breaking points. Last year I wasn't at NORF but year before I was spectating and I notice that in the same place Mikko left the breaking latere in previous years, he started not pumping but breaking a bit earlier. If he does that on every curve, we are talking about seconds of loss.

Braking later doesn't necessarily mean being faster as You can miss the right point to turn. For example here in CZ Roman Kresta was usually the last one to brake in very brutal way. It made him very spectacular but not always the fastest.

I think A.F.F has a good point here with the braking points.

I've only been to NORF to see WRC IRL. If you compare the drivers in the same corner you can clearly see a difference between guys like Ogier or Loeb (one aggressive braking - no more, like in tarmac racing) while the guys brought up on gravel pumps it to get the car where they want it (like you wouldn't know :rolleyes: )

Here JML are the closest to the french in style what I've seen. Mikko tends to pump the brake maybe two-three times too much IMO. I've run a stopwatch from point A (100 m from corner) to point B (end of corner) and you tend to see a tenth or so in difference between top guys and at the same time a clear difference in style. Maybe it's again a question of confidence or too deeply rooted behavior. But it will add up in the end of SS.

How many times have you not heard Mikko or JML say: I can't believe how he (Loeb/Ogier) could be faster?

I will point out that I'm no way near an expert and don't try to tell these great drivers how to and how not, but I've tried adapting the one-point-braking in RBR and it drops my stage times with sometimes a second or two.

I still think Mikko is among the top 5 drivers in WRC. He as the experience and definitely the speed. Put it together and he will win again. Sweden was now in hindsight not bad at all.

Just my two cents...

Late braking only benefits the driver if he can apply the throttle earlier in the turn with sufficient tire traction on the surface. If you can't apply the throttle effectively, as Mirek stated, it can make you slower than if you had taken a smoother turn at the corner with earlier braking.

That said, I think that Loeb and Ogier have shown that this circuit-based technique has allowed them to consistently drive faster over a variety of surfaces compared with the older rally techniques (such as the Scandanavian Flick and wide drifts through gravel). Also, it's important to remember that the key to any braking technique is not when you apply the brakes, but rather when you release them.

I was only once in NORF but the difference I saw between Loeb and basically almost all others including Ogier was different lines. Loeb was (as it was already pointed out) more precise, more straight and less sideways. For example when I was on one rather big corner-jump only Loeb managed to jump straight, all others jumped sideways or not jumped at all.

Braking is not only speed reduction, more importantly it is a weight transfer. In general the intensity or late braking depends on the corner ... sometimes you need more weight transfer in the "wheel turn moment" at short sharper corners or less weight transfer at longer and faster corners. Late braking may lead to less precise lines, respectively lower speed at the corner end.

Loeb managed to enter slowly slow corners and to accelerate earlier, meanwhile to be more agressive and to carry high speed at high speed curves without excessive weight transfer. Personal opinion ;-)

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Originally Posted by OgyWRC

Braking is not only speed reduction, more importantly it is a weight transfer. In general the intensity or late braking depends on the corner ... sometimes you need more weight transfer in the "wheel turn moment" at short sharper corners or less weight transfer at longer and faster corners. Late braking may lead to less precise lines, respectively lower speed at the corner end.

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completely agree.

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Originally Posted by OgyWRC

Loeb managed to enter slowly slow corners and to accelerate earlier, meanwhile to be more agressive and to carry high speed at high speed curves without excessive weight transfer. Personal opinion ;-)

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that is what i have seen too.To be more precise i would write the same minus the bold word.

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Originally Posted by OgyWRC

Braking is not only speed reduction, more importantly it is a weight transfer. In general the intensity or late braking depends on the corner ... sometimes you need more weight transfer in the "wheel turn moment" at short sharper corners or less weight transfer at longer and faster corners. Late braking may lead to less precise lines, respectively lower speed at the corner end.

Loeb managed to enter slowly slow corners and to accelerate earlier, meanwhile to be more agressive and to carry high speed at high speed curves without excessive weight transfer. Personal opinion ;-)

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Do I now you? :D

It's an off topic, but interesting to know ;-)

We have tested different driving techniques at snow track (relatively slow one 2-3 gear) with FWD car. First run - sideways everywhere, 2 run - clean driving (grandmother style) => exactly the same lap time! Being in the car or watching outside we had the feeling that the sideways "racing" style is much faster, but in reality it was not. So, you have to test your driving technique against the stopwatch ;-) On the other hand, putting the car sideways usually brings you more confidence on snow and makes you feel fast, until you compare you time with the time of someone with name Sebastien ;-)

Marcus Grönholm told in an interview that while he was driving for Peugeot, laptop guys told that racing style, later known as Loeb-style of approach to cornering is the fastest way. Marcus was faster with sideways. He said the same thing as OgyWRC. The best way for you is the fastest one.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

The best way for you is the fastest one.

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I would be a bit more specific.

The best way for you is the fastest one for you. However, if guy in the other car can drive in another, faster way, then he'll be faster than you, even in equal car. Also, I remember reading that Gronholm learned to drive nose first in big-bonnet Celica and thus his driving style would have been different from traditional Finns. I never analyzed this on the stages so you tell me if that's so.

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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Fortunately the Pickems competition isn't a self-imposed handicap contest, but feel free to go right ahead
;)

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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He sure could win, I´d like that to be the outcome. But I do believe something has to happen to the Polo boys.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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He sure could win, I´d like that to be the outcome. But I do believe something has to happen to the Polo boys.

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In other words you only believe in a Mikko victory if his rivals have problems?

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Originally Posted by RS

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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He sure could win, I´d like that to be the outcome. But I do believe something has to happen to the Polo boys.

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In other words you only believe in a Mikko victory if his rivals have problems?

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Yepp, for the time being. Maybe only JML and Seb. Otherwise the Mexican round will be between Mikko and Mads.

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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For 5th place?. :D

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Originally Posted by COD

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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For 5th place?. :D

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On the evidence of the first 2 rounds that's a fair assessment
1-2 Polos 3-4 Citroens 5 Mikko (unless Thierry decides not to throw it into the scenery this time) Evans 6 or 7
I won't speculate further or I'd have to move the post to Pickem discussion :arrowed:

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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

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Originally Posted by COD

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Originally Posted by litifeta

Mikko is my pick for Mexico

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For 5th place?. :D

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On the evidence of the first 2 rounds that's a fair assessment
1-2 Polos 3-4 Citroens 5 Mikko (unless Thierry decides not to throw it into the scenery this time) Evans 6 or 7
I won't speculate further or I'd have to move the post to Pickem discussion :arrowed:

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Evans on 6 th would be biggest sensation...

Woot???! Not having seen any footage nor news about this day but still, Mikko leading after leg one! Well this is refreshing :)

Hanaa Mikko!!!

Seeing the enthusiasm here I can conclude that there's many Mikko fans out there, but they have been dissapointed by his lackluster efforts so far. I'm one of those and today genuinely happy to see Mikko leading a rally :)

Time to revive this thread again?

Plus nearly three minutes on his home rally..

Is he contracted for next year?

His time is over... He would have been champion multiple times even but he hit the iceberg called Loeb... pity.

Time to join the long list of never beens.

Sad to say, but I can agree he is ended in WRC.

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Originally Posted by RS

Time to revive this thread again?

Plus nearly three minutes on his home rally..

Is he contracted for next year?

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In the second day of NORF live event, BT sport channel commentator said that this might be the last season for Mikko in WRC, sourcing Finnish tabloid newspapers.

ouch...

Before the event I thought he might challenge for the podium; but it never looked likely. Miles away from it.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Before the event I thought he might challenge for the podium; but it never looked likely. Miles away from it.

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Agreed. Mikko's time is almost up. I don't think he has been helped by M-Sport's lack of ambition. It is clear they are not interested in winning, or even being competitive, just selling cars.