On Morzine Meeke had brake fade problems on the downhill sections in the DS3 and still the same problems with Ogier. Would imagine Ogier is under pressure to beat Guigou.
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On Morzine Meeke had brake fade problems on the downhill sections in the DS3 and still the same problems with Ogier. Would imagine Ogier is under pressure to beat Guigou.
2 Last stage the conditions weather was differred between Ogier and Guigou but it's nice battle is going to begin now.....
Amazing time from Cedric !!!!!
Must say I am impressed by Kubica, would be cool to see him and Raikkonen in the same class in a rally, maybe Kimi would get something to think about !
+1 I totaly agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
What cartype is supposed to be fastest:
S1600, R3, R3T.
They are pretty even on the charts, but hard to tell how much is driver and how much is car, since I know little of the French national drivers!
I think the S1600 would be the fastest with 230-240 PS and 1000 kg weight (If I remember right). The second fastest would IMO be R3. The Honda has 250 PS @ 8300 rpm / 264 PS @ 8800 rpm and the Renault has 230 PS. The Citroen R3T has “only” 210 PS and the same weight as R3 cars, 1080 kg.
Citroen:
http://www.piecescitroensport.citroe...tionGB_jg1.pdf
Honda:
http://www.jasmotorsport.com/Pdf/256.pdf
Renault R3:
http://www.renault-sport.com/en/rall...io_r3_maxi.php
Renault S1600:
http://www.renault-sport.com/en/rall.../technique.php
Clio Maxi 2010 has 250 Hp ;)
If you take in to account nm, then the picture is in R3T favour, instead of R3 and S1600 beeing the fastest, isn`t it?
They’re then faster to get more power from the engine than updating their web page. :)
That's quite questionable. We would need dyno chart and gearing to compare both engines exactly. It's sure that DS3 must have larger power bent but if it really has only 210 Hp maximum, than it hardly can match 250 Hp by some 120 Nm more torque (don't forget that it must have much longer gears due to rather short rpm range - torque is transformed by gears, so power is the only comparable number). Anyway I don't believe press numbers enough to make comparison based on them :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mm1
By the way 1080 kg is for R3C, not R3T. AFAIK R3T has 1120 kg minimum.
R3 is the fastest with the newest evolutions . 2010 Clio has 250 BHP , around 260 is expected next year
According to Miroslav Janota (historic driver) there was ice on same places. Stage Collobrieres is partly under light snow cover!
http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/373...480916njpg.jpg
PS Megane running as zero finally have anti-lag.
R3T = 1080 kg, R3D = 1150 kg. Just checked it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
A little disadvantage group R cars has on tarmac is that ground clearance can’t be lower than stated on the homologation form.
Aha, so it was changed also (as restrictor size after 2009).
Another besttime for Robert on the last stage of the day (long one). He takes another 11 sec on Tiribassi, Bouffier is staying third and will take thge crown if everything stays like this tomorrow. :)
Much better speed by Sarrazin now - only 25s behind Bouffier despite his problems. Encouraging for an assault on Monte Carlo in January.
Yes, it is true, but most of the time he allways makes a mistake somewhere.Bouffier is also driving in another context, i am not saying that he is just cruising trough, but i guess he has big safety margin and is only interested in the French title. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
After eight specials nothing new, it seems that Tirabassi has to much troubles with his Impreza, so Robert has a safe advantage for the last day.But all this is nothing compare to shocked stage times achived by F1 boy-Kubica!!
I must admit that I as a great fan of Ogier (also a successor of Loeb) am deeply disappointed of his driving capabilities and that he is not abble to at least keep the contact with Kubica, let alone be faster than Kubica! Do not forget-Ogier was two years ago JWRC champion!! And Kubica two years ago maybe did not even know how to start the engine of the rally car....
Ogier is simply losing 0,5 to 1 second/km of the stage. Far too much...And do not doubt about the cars-definitely is a brand new DS3R3T faster than privat, almost ten years old S1600 rally car. Think yust on the chassis, suspensions&traction-how big is the development every year and Clio's homologation had last changes in the year 2005....
Also big disappointment Italians crews in the R3 class....
The horsepowers are still live and kicking although 10 years old. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
Also R3 car has smaller brakes and it's suspension is stock-based compared to special wide one in S1600.
But it's true that Clio S1600 is rather old car (it's homologation ends next year - hopefully they make it lasting longer).
That’s true. By comparing these two homologation sheets one can see that there’s considerable difference in the wishbones and subframes.
Citroën C2 Max:
http://www.piecescitroensport.citroe...2_VR2Bcopy.pdf (pages 27-30)
Citroën S1600:
http://www.piecescitroensport.citroe..._01_KScopy.pdf (pages 15-16)
Note the exotic rear axle of S1600.
I also believe that one difference between R2 and R3 are the wishbones. At least Honda has a similar front wishbone as S1600 as an option.
http://www.jasmotorsport.com/Pdf/256.pdf (page 7).
Clio too. If I'm not mistaken stock Clio R.S. has the "Performance Hub" front axle but R3 has normal McPherson. Renault Perofmance Hub is very similar to Ford RS Revo Knuckle with independent steering on McPherson-like strut.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
Kubica drove occasional rallies in Poland much years ago :)
in my opinion biggest advantage of Clio S1600 over Clio R3 is the brakes. Then weight, wider suspension, lower ride height... But of course Kubica is great driver.
Remember when he was driving Clio R3 last year he wasn't that fast, there were also some braking issues. I think S1600 suits him perfectly as it's proper tarmac car, as close to racing car as a rally car could be. Plus watch his style, he's using tires in 100%, he checks tires temp, pressure before and after every stage, and analyzes this data, he's doing it since he was 8 years old, so he's got some experience :)
also with the accident of Campana Abbring should be the guy who wins Clio R3 European Trophy tomorow
i think the biggest advantage is Kubica :) he is very fast, if he start in the same class like Kimi he beat him without problems!
Go RK ! :)
Why Bouffier don't have got 307 WRC? In Polish they writed he will start 307 WRC.
I entirely agree and respect your opinions about technical specifications over S1600&R3&R3T classes, and I also know that RK is a damn fast and an all round driver, but my dear friends, do not forget with whom we are comparing him: Mr.Ogier!! He is the unwritten successor of irrecplaceable Sebastian Loeb!! One of the three, maybe four fastest drivers in the world rallying-we are not talking here about one local, fast driver, who has a good day and some luck.
It is the same comparison as Kimi would beat Loeb&Co after few rallies for a minute or two...can you imagine that???
Kubica did already humiliate the drivers with 2WD in Italy, but still we can not compare Albertini&Gamba&Cempedelli&Ferrari&Campana with Ogier, therefore I did not expect on the French soil to be even close to Ogier, let alone to be in front of him.....
Enough theory-pure fact is that Kubica is breaking rules and yust a small wish-what would happen if he someday gets a proper WRC for a race or two...??
So tomorrow Ogier try to be faster than Kubica at least on one stage....
what a time from kubica in the first stage today !!! amazing
Ucci, I think that's an unfair judgement of both Ogier and Kubica performances.
First off all we have the cars. The Clio S1600 has years of development and data to use, plus it's much more of an tarmac oriented rally car.
The DS3 is, in my opinion, too high from the ground to make it fast, in the recent videos you can clearly see on corners the car bounces quite a bit, and
if im not mistaken is Ogier first time in the car.
First time for Ogier with DS3 R3 and first time in the Var rally
DS3 R3 still needs development, and it would be possible to compare the performances of the pilots that on the length of a championship. It being what accomplishes Kubica is really an amazing performance....
Stage: 9
7. Robert Kubica – Jakub Gerber (Renault Clio Super 1600) : « I was careful because it was dark and it was slippery. » :)
Waw, Robert, double coffee today? :D
It seems that Kubica really want that 3. place overall ... Amazing driving from him! :eek:
Is it raining there, because in the last SS the times were much slower then yesterday in the first pass??
Yes it's raining and some place with water running on the road
In last satge, the fight between Ogier and Guigou will be interesting to follow...
unbeliveable performance by Kubica, beating 4wd cars in wet conditions... also very good times by Abbring, Campana retires yesterday so Kevin can push today
New scratch for Kubica and puncture for Guigou, so Ogier win the R3 group with DS3
pitty for Guigu :(
Kubica is really amazing.Would like to see him with a s2000 against irc drivers.
Kubica is a real racedriver that can succeed in multiple disciplines !
Any pics from the historic part ?