Loeb did a very reasonable time, 8th out of 17, all with more F1 experience then him, 1,7 seconds behind the fastest, Sato in the Torro Rosso.
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Loeb did a very reasonable time, 8th out of 17, all with more F1 experience then him, 1,7 seconds behind the fastest, Sato in the Torro Rosso.
you can see the times of the test here (last column indicates how many laps the drivers did)
http://www.rally.gr/default.asp?menu...ticle_id=15628
albeit in a 2008 car which is maybe alot quicker than the 2009 cars being tested.
Sebastien was not the only 2008 car running slicks, so I still think his time is quite impressive given his lack of F1 experience.
Finland is still a great event, GB is barely a shadow of what it was, but in my earlier post what I had said I would hope for wouldnt be mere protection of position for some select events, but also the freedom to run a proper event, a Rally GB with Grizdale and Kielder would still be a great and testing event.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
I'd love to see 4/5 events given freedom to run old style, treated almost like a Masters Series within the championship, I'll bet some recently retired drivers could be enticed back to something like this.
I disagree with you regarding history though, the Monte Carlo rally may have its troubles, but it is still the best known rally. I'm sure for competitors good hotels and compact loops are all lovely but this whole thing is a 'sport' funded by marketing, and history, profile, global interest are all very much linked when it comes to events.
The Kuwaiti enterprise investment took over 40 per cent of pro drive.
This publication came from both parties today.
Source:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/home/index.html
So are we going to see "Kuwait Team Subaru" and "Abu Dhabi BP Ford" next year then?
So Apax partners already own 50%, and Kuwait Enterprise Investments 40%, so DR, only holds 10% assuming he has all remaining shares...
....Brilliant. Another bit of the UK silverware sold.
here is official statment
http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=199
they state TID bought 40%, so I assume they have bought Apex share, as he is still largest shareholder.
Aston Martin eat all DR money?!
Loeb will quit WRC if FIA get it their way on the next WMSC meeting. He doesn't want the simple S2000 / Group N format without the possibility of adding the S2000+ kit.
I honestly don't think that FIA cares what Loeb think or if he will quit the sport. Their main focus is cost-cutting. But I think that the sport will suffer big time if we only get S2000 - the cars are simply not spectacular enough IMO.
But I wonder if the teams and fans will care if Loeb quits? Will the sport suffer if the biggest name retires, or are there so few fans left that it doesn't matter?
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/loeb-quit-wrc-s2000/
On one hand it would be sad to seen Seb move on (although im sure he would suceed in other areas) but on the other hand wouldnt mind too much.
If the FIA's propsed implemenmtation of S2000/Group N as the primary category then I agree that the cars arnt visually appealing but if the current regs were relaxed a bit, say perhaps S2500/Group N with larger restictor as well as a manditory 40/60 front/rear tourque split centre differential then the cars could be sideways more often and have sufficiant power to please most.
To me spectacular driving come from having the car sideways under power, sliding the car around corners, using scandinavians flicks to get around hair pins and generally putting the car to the limit of sideways grip.
Recently been driving my Subaru Liberty/Legacy RS Turbo with a Version 2 STi DCCD close ratio gear box. I havent installed the electronic side of this rendereing a 35/65 torque split.
To the non Subaru inclined that wont mean a great deal but the point im trying to make is that its a blast to drive - especially on gravel. It get sideways quite easily, but most importantly its VERY controlable yet I dont have a great deal of power at the wheels.
Thoughts?
While I'm a fan of Loeb, it's not for him to decide what future direction the sport goes. The S2000 are pretty expensive at the moment - then add a Turbo and Rear wing - how much will they then cost? And whether he's right or wrong regarding S2000 - if there are lots of Teams/cars/drivers with S2000 - What is wrong with that? A strong WRC is what is wanted. The early days of GroupA were hardly earth shattering, were they?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
There seems to be the idea that having wrc-cars and wrc-drivers in local rallies, diminishes the WRC itself. This because the WRC is supposedly the pinnacle. Having local guest drivers beating wrc-drivers shatters that idea. In their opinion the WRC must be as exclusive as possible, not only to lock out the opposition, but also to ask very high prices for entering.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Of course, I think the exact opposite of this vision.
Seem to remember DR saying this as well - comparing it to F1. Sorry, this is Rallying, not F1, a completely different sport. It's always happened, get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
In an interview Olivier Quesnel was also worried about privateers winning rallies. I don’t remember where I read that interview but I’m quite sure it was in crash.net. I tried to search for it in crash.net but couldn’t find it.
This not so much about “News & rumours” so I comment it in the thread “Technical Regulations 2010 –delayed”Quote:
Originally Posted by grugsticles
MotoGP and the Superbikes on two wheels have always faced the threat from an invited wildcard rider. The biggest threat coming during the Japanese events because of special factory 'hand grenades' built especially for the current local whizz kid to know the big boys off their perch. Usually it would end up with the whizz kid crashing out into the gravel, but occasionally it did cause an upset win that also affected the overall championship. However it has not brought the sport down a notch, increased local interest in the event and was great to see at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
There is nothing different under the proposed changes that would be greatly different than the pay-ride one off rally appearances that happen now. Just at a more affordable level with S2000+. The major teams will still rise to the top with the greater budgets. Just like the factories rise above the rest despite local entries in the IRC.
Video of Loeb Rally GB test
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/loeb-pre-rally-gb-test/
When did you last see a World Rally Car doing that though?Quote:
Originally Posted by grugsticles
Power and torque are not the only things needed to achieve this. Unfortunately the WRC teams seem to want to keep the bits that stop this!
To me spectacular driving results is faster stage times.... who cares how it looks... it isn't art, its racing...
you haven't been to a forest to see a Mk2 Escort being driven hard then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Torsen
Some trains are also going with a very high speed but IMO that’s not so spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torsen
Group A days come to mind :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
From someone who has had experience at the top level in Classics (MK 2 Escort GP 4) Super 1600 and in Group N. Also have done local events in a Turbo FWD Charade. To me the ultimate is setting a good stage time that when you get to the end of the stage you k now you can't drive the car any faster.
The good drivers will still look good in an S2000 or whatever they are told to drive. Let's see what the power brokers come up with, still go to the rallies no matter what result. If you are a true rally fan you will follow the sport no matter what.
So called fans who would leave the sport if the cars were detuned or didn't have turbos are not really fans in my eyes.
Be patient and the good times will come.
Ray Baker
I entirely agree with your post here. :up: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by raybak
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
:laugh: :laugh:
That is one of the best comments ever :laugh:
OK, who can honestly say that spectating at the stage is as interesting with group N cars as with wrc-cars. Or who can say that video clips of group N cars are spectacular in slightest extent?
I can. In Estonian championship group N looks very nice:-) But it is fully on gravel:-) But our top drivers are pushing like hell and those few WRcars that we can see are usually not the fastest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finni
I can say 100% no group N is not good to watch for spectator HOWEVER is driving as they are sooo dull!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Finni
You obviously haven't been watching properly, have you ever seen a rally live before?Quote:
Originally Posted by ste898
Group N can be spectacular, Group A can be spectular, a FWD Lada can be spectacular.
I have seen a Hyundai Excel 1.6 driven so that it was very exciting to watch.
Any true rally fan will see this.
Ray
I can honestly say that a properly driven group N car can be very spectacular,you can see when a group N car is pushed to the limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finni
I know that is hard to understand to some fans because group N is not their top group , but in this part of Europe it is the top group so all of the top drivers are driving group N car and they are pushing very hard.
In Italy I would prefer to watch Ucci,Longhi,Aghini and Cantamessa in group N cars then some of those REALLY slow drivers in WRC cars (there are some exceptions in WRC cars that are driving properly,hats down to them)
About videos:Just watch Czech videos where all of the top drivers are driving group N.Trust me,they are very fast ;)
So my conclusion:Group N cars can be interesting
to raybak: But a RWD Lada VFTS is even more spectacular ;)
Well, the drivers shouldn't be given trains to drive then.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Current WRC cars are unspectacular. Not the drivers.
Group N can be spectacular, but it is AS spectacular as WRC. Not in a million years. Of course, if you watch a national series that has only group F cars in it the best of those can be spectacular. Add one WRC with decent driver to the same rally and suddenly all the others look like mopeds.
I really hope that group N and S2000 is not the future. At least it has to be S2000+. Hopefully S2000++ :)
Sure it isnt as spectacular as WRC,it never will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodeye
There are not much better sights for a rally fan,then to see a WRC approaching a hairpin (possibly on mountain roads) ,a little squirlle is released from the turbo while braking and the car gently sliding while it is glued to the tarmac (as low as possible).
That is the top moment for me ;)
But group N isnt as DEADLY BORING AND DULL as some members are describing it,surely it isnt and it never will be.
Are you still living in 2003?Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
Honda R3 - pdf with prize...
http://www.jasmotorsport.com/Pdf/188.pdf
Why? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
You cancelled your own argument there. It is the quality of the driver and how they push the car to and beyond the limit that makes them spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodeye
A bad driver in a WRC is boring. A good driver in something just saved from the wreckers yard is fun to watch.
The difference between class of cars is too subjective and every fan has their own opinion. AWD vs RWD vs FWD, Old vs New, Turbo vs N/A
However the spectacle is not from the tool but from the skilled tradesman using it. A great driver will always look great, no matter what they are driving.
One of the most spectacular drives I have ever seen was actually the Toyota Landcruiser recovery vehicle at the end of the event. Was all crossed up and onto two wheels and was simply beautiful to see.