why no penalty for Hamilton?

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

We can again have countless pages of discussion how the incident with Massa and Maldonado at Monaco was 50-50, if you want to. ;)



Dislike for a driver's style I can understand. The annoyance is over some people being anal about something as petty or ridiculous as a penalty not being harsh enough. So, it's not enough that a penalty was dished out for a no-contact incident, was taken, and the driver even apologized for it, but here we have 1000 pages of people still whining over it. If this is not unreasonable beef with a certain individual, then I don't know what is.

God forbid if Lewis ever did anything like this, Mark would make a million dollars in a day off of traffic generated by Lewis haters alone.

[youtube]Jjls3SIbcH8[/youtube]

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So , my dislike of Lewis's style of pannicking when under pressure lately you can understand , then ?
Good .

If he had been able to do his spin before they got there , I would be here congratulating him with you .

You believe the penalty just , and I don't think it was enough .
That's fine . At least it was recognized as a no-no .
I don't want to see that again , from anyone .

As far as the vid goes , and not to really cast Lewis as bad as Tracy , but if the others had not anticipated as well , or if he hadn't managed that maneouvre quite as deftly , he might have tangled up a number of cars , trying to spin it into the marbles outside the second part of the chicane , he might have turned up looking pretty much as silly .

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Originally Posted by Daniel

and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater

This sort of topic is getting tiring to say the least when people are getting branded as haters for merely having an opinion.

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I never mentioned that he did nothing wrong. My whole point about this is that as soon as Lewis is mentioned certain members of the board see red. The number of anti-Lewis threads on the front page of this forum alone about Lewis supports this view.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Perhaps there should be a Trulli/Perez thread .
You should start one , if you think it's far worse .

Maybe it was cheating , but was it dangerous ? In my opinion , no .
I'll keep my opinion on Perez for your thread .

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It wans't dangerous no. It was deliberately cheating though. Lewis never had intent. He simply didn't see DiResta. My whole point of bringing up Perez/Trulli incident is that no one cares and harps on the band wagon unless Lewis is involved. There is no other driver that would generate this much discussion. People have an issue with Lewis. You may not be one of those people. I've only ever seen you criticise him but, as said above, the number of threads on the opening page alone of this forum criticising Lewis shows a few forum members certainly hold some sort of grudge against him. If you are unable to see this, then fine. It's glaringly obvious.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

So , my dislike of Lewis's style of pannicking when under pressure lately you can understand , then ?
Good .

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Were you as vocal in your criticism of Sebastian Vettel in 2010?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

As far as the vid goes , and not to really cast Lewis as bad as Tracy , but if the others had not anticipated as well , or if he hadn't managed that maneouvre quite as deftly , he might have tangled up a number of cars , trying to spin it into the marbles outside the second part of the chicane , he might have turned up looking pretty much as silly .

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Coulda, shoulda, ifs and buts. He didn't crash into anyone and left enough room on that side of the track. FFS Di Resta's right tyres were slightly off the white line on the outside of the kerb. If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty. Neither Barrichello before or Di Resta after created a fuss about it. The drivers knew what they were doing. Lewis didn't create an accident.

IMO a drive through penalty was more than enough for only making a car go slightly off track. There was no contact, nobody's race got ruined. The apology later to Paul should have closed the book.

I am yet to find an answer to my earlier question in this thread. Why wasn't there an outburst like this by fans for Sebastian Vettel in 2010, when his drives were equally or even more boneheaded? I'm talking about tangling with Webber at Turkey, almost taking himself and Lewis out at Silverstone, and taking Button out at Spa? That's more than what Lewis has done in 2011.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Just three posts back , Knockie said "It's debatable whether a penalty was justifed" .
Wouldn't that be a debate between penalty and no penalty ?

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Baggy. It was debatable but the Stewards decided that as Paul left the track, Lewis deserved a drive thru. The commentators didn't think it deserved a penalty but when he did get one, I don't think many people thought it was harsh and accepted it. Personally, I believe it was debatable but it was fine getting a drive thru.

Saying something is debatable surely means there are pro's and cons. I saw a skilled driver do a spin practically on the spot and get our of a dangerous track position. He didn't hit anyone or ruin anyone's race but technically should have waited for Paul to pass. I really don't see what all this fuss is about?

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Coulda, shoulda, ifs and buts. He didn't crash into anyone and left enough room on that side of the track. FFS Di Resta's right tyres were slightly off the white line on the outside of the kerb. If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty. Neither Barrichello before or Di Resta after created a fuss about it. The drivers knew what they were doing. Lewis didn't create an accident.

IMO a drive through penalty was more than enough for only making a car go slightly off track. There was no contact, nobody's race got ruined. The apology later to Paul should have closed the book.

I am yet to find an answer to my earlier question in this thread. Why wasn't there an outburst like this by fans for Sebastian Vettel in 2010, when his drives were equally or even more boneheaded? I'm talking about tangling with Webber at Turkey, almost taking himself and Lewis out at Silverstone, and taking Button out at Spa? That's more than what Lewis has done in 2011.

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So Lewis fans can say coulda shoulda woulda but non-Lewis fans can't?

Think back to Turkey, there was MASSIVE criticism of Vettel!!!!

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty.

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Thanks for that .
That's an answer to my question about the "what ifs" here .

DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .

So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Thanks for that .
That's an answer to my question about the "what ifs" here .

DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .

So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .

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But apparently because no accident happened then it's fine.

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Originally Posted by Retro Formula 1

Saying something is debatable surely means there are pro's and cons. I saw a skilled driver do a spin practically on the spot and get our of a dangerous track position. He didn't hit anyone or ruin anyone's race but technically should have waited for Paul to pass. I really don't see what all this fuss is about?

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I've never meant to give the impression that it wasn't an awe-inspiring piece of driving . It was .

He "technically should have waited" , is exactly what I'm on about .
He should have , because of the potential to take several others out .

They got him for causing Paul to leave the racing surface , but they would not have charged him with that , had he stayed put , even if Paul had had to do much the same action .

Next time , I hope he waits , and does the the technically proper thing .

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Originally Posted by Daniel

So Lewis fans can say coulda shoulda woulda but non-Lewis fans can't?

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Did I say they can't? Plus you're really missing the point I'm trying to make by a landslide.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Think back to Turkey, there was MASSIVE criticism of Vettel!!!!

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And equal criticism of Webber as well. Vettel fans criticizing Webber and vice versa. A few posts ago you said you saw the incident with Vettel and Webber as 50-50, and yet in the Monaco 2011 thread I remember you saying that the onus of a clean overtake lies 100% with the overtaker. Why the double standards Daniel? We can very easily assign 50-50 fault on the incident with Maldonado and Massa at Monaco this year as well.

More importantly, in 2010 I don't remember anybody calling for race bans on Vettel. Spa 2010 was his second, almost third big example of reckless driving. I don't remember anybody asking for harsher penalties, race bans, beheading etc. like folks are doing for Lewis this year.

In fact, Schumacher has had more brain farts, pushing and shoving, front wings taken off and collided with more cars in the last two years than any other front running driver. Why isn't he on the receiving end of the stick?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .

So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .

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But did the disaster happen? Should the stewards decide the penalties based on what "COULD" have happened or what "DID" happen? Hamilton forced another car off track, got the drive through penalty. In your opinion, he should have gotten a much harsher penalty based on what COULD have happened.

So, Schumacher was handed a 10 place grid penalty for his squeeze on Barrichello on the main straight at well over 300 KMPH at Hungary 2010. IF they would have touched, there could have been a huge disaster, the car could have rolled multiple times, Barrichello could have been fatally injured. He also turned into Villenueve in 1997 knowing full well that it was really dangerous and stupid at those speeds. The penalties he got for them were pretty nonsensical. Maybe Schumacher should have been handed a life imprisonment for what COULD have happened in those two incidents?