Wow that's racist!!!

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Originally Posted by Mark

It is.

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But you and me both know that theres a lot in UK that don't do it and have no intention of learning the language

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

You can argue that maybe first generation immigrants don't get as culturally involved as you would hope but that can't be said in the majority of cases about their second generation off spring. Maybe it just me but at times I'm somewhat suprised when I hear friends that are second or third generation immigrants speaking their native language. I just kind of forget that someone might be fluent in a different language just because I hear them speak in their thick Brummie accents everyday.

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I'm quoting myself here but the language issue generllay nul and void after the first generation of immigrants.

Members of my dad's family where the first language is French start being tought English at school from about the age of 4 or 5. I have cousins who have never set foot on English soil yet speak better English than the natives. I talk to them in English rather than French due to fact that my French is now useless and their English is word perfect apart from the French twang that comes with it. It also helps that they watch alot of English speaking television.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Certainly in Britiain anyway which until 10,000 years ago was covered in an ice-sheet, nobody can go back further than that. And during much of that time occupation consisted of nomadic tribes who were constantly on the move following the seasons anyway.

Indeed, unless you an African living in Africa chances are you are the product of migration.

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actually notwithstanding other theories to the contrary, theroy exists that the current africans migrated from somewhere around central asia, or perhaps a bit to the west of India, with far lighter skin than what is present today, some 10,000 to 15,000 years ago

and only around 5,000BC, started developing darker skin

only immigrates that ought to be run out of the USA, are all those folks from great brit who can not even learn to speak english correctly

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Originally Posted by Fred Basset

I think what Steve refers to are the ones that never want to learn the language of the country they moved to no matter how long they live there. It should be a a req that you learn the language over a period of time

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Thats my point.

If you are going to move to a different country to live or even travel, you should respect the countries culture and learn the language regardless...

I don't get the problem. Do any of you realise how difficult it is to learn English when you're a mature age person? :mark: For some people it's also important to keep their language alive as well. My sister in law is teaching my nephew Polish and he's going to go to a Polish playgroup. Now personally I actually don't agree with that because I think he should learn English first and then Polish after that but that's just me.

A few years ago we used to make regular deliveries to Toronto. Our favourite restaurant was in Agincourt (part of Toronto) which by then was pronounced Asian Court. We went for the Dim Sum which we both enjoyed. We often were the only whites in the place. Line ups were common. The only staff who spoke English were the hostess and the Managers. Just the same all announcements were in both Chinese (Cantonese) and English. All Chinese staff. Seating capacity 368.
One time, after we had been going for years, we met a former Employee of mine who was visiting from Hong Kong. It was her who told us it was Cantonese they spoke. By this time there were a few more whites and the odd East Asian or Black eating there.
We were never treated any different than any other customer and some of the staff were starting to struggle with English. Some of them recognized us as semi regulars. Not hard when so few whites ate there!
Rita, my former employee, informed us that it was as good as any Dim Sum restaurant in Hong Kong.
I do miss Dim Sum. The closest is in Orillia (80k round trip) and no where near as good, especially selection. With them Dim Sum is a sideline as there is no way they could survive just serving Dim Sum up here.
We also learned to appreciate good Indian cooking thanks to a fellow employee when I worked in Toronto.
There are jerks of all colours and nationalities but the majority are fine people.

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Originally Posted by Mark

"Black music" is widely recognised as a genere,

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That's news to me.

The only issue I have ever had is that in Canada, there is so much emphasis put on people coming here keeping their culture and adding to what is here, and it sends a message of "don't worry about the language, live with your group, and it will be a bit like home". The result? We have people in large parts of Toronto (Agincourt/"asiancourt") and in the suburb of Markham that are all from Hong Kong or southern China, and they never speak any English at all unless one of us Caucasians are in business with them. I think in time tho this will settle out. The second generation is speaking English and attaching themselves to the Canadian culture. It is no different in the suburb of Brampton, which is heavily Indian and Pakistani. The second generation is enrolling in playing hockey and playing baseball, not cricket; and one only has to listen to the comedy of Russel Peters, an Indian who grew up there to see how the culture of his home influenced him, but he has become a North American.

The Americans have the melting pot, we have the multicultural model, but in time, the natural desire to fit in will win out, if not with the first generation, certainly with the second.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

What's the difference?

Only difference I see is how some are more hypocrites than others denying it.

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The difference is this, and it came tome way back in 1979 when a gang of us from Eurpoe were driving thru the outskirts of Soweto outside Johannesburg.

One of the South Africa guys was defending the Apartheid system and and siad he'd seen some BBC program about the living condition of farm workers in California's Central Valley and he's saying in that weird Boer accent "What's the difference? The Kiefer's here live like animals, and the farm workers there in California do too, it's the same".
My mates who were also international cross idioter (2 Swedes and a Flemming) like me sorta said well, yeah ain't so different....what's the big deal?"

I said: if you or you or you is a individual who has some mild general xenophobia or worse outright overt racism, I can rightfully call you a racist and I can treat people as my equals if I choose but those seriously racist vote for Parties that then institute laws which then leave me no choice myself as to be a racist or not.
"Under your system, I have no choice but to be a racist or break your laws"

Amazingly the guy actually thought and blinked, and then accepted the difference and said "I'd never thought of that".

Always was baffled how so many are racists yet the real people f***ing them up the *** are generally of a different social class, more often than a different race.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Same issue as many Brits going to live in Spain without proper knowledge of Spanish.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen house programmes where a couple want to move to live in Spain and find work there, and yet can't speak a word of Spanish!

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Precisely, yet this sort of thing always passes over the heads of those who criticise people coming into the UK.