The 2009 IndyCar Series schedule:

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Seeing as how MDS didn't join here until June of 2008, that's a very big assumption on your point. And that is precisely my point. You jumped on his comments as if you knew that he was one of the CCF crowd you are talking about. But you don't know that at all. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. That's not calling 'em like you see 'em, it is calling 'em like you want to see 'em. Or more to the point, like you ASSUME you see 'em.

If we are to truly get past the bad blood that has existed for years, it is going to take more than just the old Champ Car fans getting over the fact that the ICS won the war of attrition. It is going to take some of the old IRL fans having some patience, instead of calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a member of the CCF community.

Gary

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What do you think the IRL would have to do to make MDS happy?

IMO It says a lot about where someone is coming from if they've been a member of CCF, you included, regardless of whether you were banned or not.

Gary has been the #1 peacemaker at this forum, IMO, since the series became one, but DD has an interesting point: Are the mods going to allow the CW crowd to move over here just to take grudge shots? Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

What do you think the IRL would have to do to make MDS happy?

IMO It says a lot about where someone is coming from if they've been a member of CCF, you included, regardless of whether you were banned or not.

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I haven't a clue what would make him happy. Unlike some folks here I don't pretend to be clairvoyant.

I think it says a lot about someone when they judge another based solely on their membership in another forum, without taking into account what the PARTICIPATION was in that other forum.

For your information, I joined there long before it was the CCF. I thought it was funny and participated for a VERY short time. Then, latter I looked back in occasionally and saw the pit of vitriol it had become and that it had become the CCF. As the issue with Paul Tracy and Forsythe came to a head and some messages about Viv surfaced here, I went back to read what she said and posted some messages there. I immediately got my butt banned. Now if that paints me with the same brush as the rest of the CCF crowd in your eye, frankly Scarlet I don't give a damn. I only include this to show the rest of the folks here how short sighted and shallow your comment was.

Gary

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Originally Posted by indycool

Gary has been the #1 peacemaker at this forum, IMO, since the series became one, but DD has an interesting point: Are the mods going to allow the CW crowd to move over here just to take grudge shots? Time will tell.

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This will be my last post on this subject. ; )

I'd agree Gary has been fairly level handed, but his bias still shows (as does mine).

Let's just say it's not nessisarily a sign of being reasonable and fair minded just because someone has been banned from CW. It doesn't take much to be shown the door. Typical banning;

Poster # 1. "I think TG is a coke snorting sheep ****** that is easily as deranged as Charles Manson!!!"

Poster # 2. "Well, I can't stand him either but I wouldn't go quite that far, his family does own IMS, which is a pretty cool race track..."

"Poster # 1. "What are you, a closet gomer!?!?!!!. FIVE!!!!FOUR!!! etc etc etc..."


: )

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Originally Posted by indycool

Gary has been the #1 peacemaker at this forum, IMO, since the series became one, but DD has an interesting point: Are the mods going to allow the CW crowd to move over here just to take grudge shots? Time will tell.

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IC, thanks for that. I have tried to do that. Not out of some altruistic goal, but as a way to help clear my own conflicted feelings.

Clearly, I think Starter and Jose have already answered that with an affirmative no.

Gary

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

This will be my last post on this subject. ; )

I'd agree Gary has been fairly level handed, but his bias still shows (as does mine).

Let's just say it's not nessisarily a sign of being reasonable and fair minded just because someone has been banned from CW. It doesn't take much to be shown the door. Typical banning;

Poster # 1. "I think TG is a coke snorting sheep ****** that is easily as deranged as Charles Manson!!!"

Poster # 2. "Well, I can't stand him either but I wouldn't go quite that far, his family does own IMS, which is a pretty cool race track..."

"Poster # 1. "What are you, a closet gomer!?!?!!!. FIVE!!!!FOUR!!! etc etc etc..."


: )

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And I don't ever try to hide my bias, nor should you. I agree with you that it doesn't take much to get banned there. Your example is damn close to how I got booted. Mine was because I dared to say I would watch PT no matter where he raced.

But just as being banned is no sign of, as you put it, "being reasonable and fair minded", neither is simple membership there a sign of being part of the dark side.

Gary

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Originally Posted by indycool

MDS, fine, Zhuhai wasn't all CC's fault. But CC's principals were bragging about getting it and beating the drums long before it went blooey. KK and GF know how to put together an international deal? For racing? Ansan, too? Brazil?

Starter, Cleveland might've had a good start, but that went away with Frascoesque sanctioning fee manipulations. The Meadowlands, sounds like you pretty much know what I know. The thing about temporary courses is how many seats they build for attendance and how much GA room they have. The Meadowlands had very little of each. Long Beach has had the most seats of ANY temporary and you'd be surprised to know that figure.

weefly:
1. IMO
2. I've never suggested TG could do anything about NYC. I've never suggested that I've seen anything anywhere that he even wanted to.
3. Those hayseed growers pack 'em for the Knoxville Nationals and corporate support can come from Des Moines. There's a lot of money in that town. Otherwise, I don't understand your b---h.
4. Houston and Cleveland ARE different. Laguna is a fine road course. All three were economic victims of CART/CC in some form. And sure Dover had a big part to play in some of those.
5. So you're not pleased that Honda and Firestone sponsor things. Tough.

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2. Who's underwriting the Watkins Glen event then? All the evidence points to the same financial failure as Houston, Cleveland, Portland, etc. unless its being underwritten by shall we say silent financing?

3. The same Knoxville Nationals that couldn't find a sanctioning body after the WoO split? Its been a great event but no guarantee the money train will move north to support ICS in perpetuity.

4. Houston had struggles with redevelopment after Carl Haas promoted the first ones. Lanigan had both Cleveland and Houston on the rebound via Mi-Jack. “We were very impressed by the presentation and we are confident that Houston could be a great market for the IndyCar Series,” said Terry Angstadt, president, commercial division, Indy Racing League, the sanctioning body for the IndyCar Series and Firestone Indy Lights. “However, due to contractual obligations and our desire to grow the schedule in a way that will work for all involved it was impossible to add all of the races we would have liked for 2009. We are looking forward to continuing to work with Mike Lanigan and MJ Promotions on the possibly of racing at Reliant Park in the future". I hope this is more that 16th & Georgetown lip service.

5. Putting words in my mouth again? If it were not for Honda and Firestone, ICS would still be struggling. Mergification or not.

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

What do you think the IRL would have to do to make MDS happy?

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I'm not about getting old CC/CART tracks on the IRL schedule. Most of the teams, drivers and tracks were involved with CC/CART anyway.

What I want as a fan is something that's going to grab my attention and make me want to watch. I'm not huge NASCAR fan by any means, but I can look at the schedule and know I'll want to watch the races at Daytona, Bristol, Indy, Talladega, and the Coke 600 because those are the big, marquee events. I don't really care enough about the sport to make sure I watch every race, but I want to catch the big ones because they're fun.

With open wheel, which I am much more a fan, I want a schedule that will make me want to watch. Indy, Long Beach and Texas are the big events on the schedule, and then after that they drop off significantly in the quality of racing and marquee value. I would think Toronto's next but the rest of the ovals and most of the road courses are boring events in small markets.

There are two events I would travel to see on this schedule, Indy and Long Beach. I want a schedule where I see events that are like "I have to watch that," or "I'm going to plan a vacation around that one." and there just isn't a lot of this on this schedule.

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

IMO It says a lot about where someone is coming from if they've been a member of CCF, you included, regardless of whether you were banned or not.

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I joined CCF because there were a number of crew guys on there I used to know and the information traded there was of a pretty reliable quality. I posted a link to my post history there. I wasn't a big poster there, and most of my stuff was pretty middle of the road stuff as far as the politics go.

After looking around at a couple other forums, I think it's a mistake to assume only former CC fans are complaining about the schedule. TF has a multi page meltdown in progress from the IRL faithful about the schedule. From their general view, no Vegas and Loudon oval races plus the subtraction of Nashville amounts to treason. Some seem close to sticking an F in front of TG while others believe it's the evil influence of Tony Cotman and KK operating from the inside as a CC trojan horse. :p

As for me, the schedule is about what I expected, though losing Surfers was a surprise. Wasn't it touted from meetings earlier this year that a multi year agreement had been reached? And know it's not on the schedule. How "Champ Car" like of them. Anyone setting odds yet of this years race still going through?

DB, please post a link to people talking about treason there or joining F-Troop. I looked. You can't.