Rumored 2009 IC Schedule

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Originally Posted by Ken

split proved 2 things....

Cart cannot survive without the 500.....and TG can't flourish even with it

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Originally Posted by garyshell

On point #1, I agree.

On point #2, it proved that in the face of opposition from another open wheel series vying for the same drivers, owners, fans and sponsors that he couldn't flourish. Since he has been without such competition only from Feb. to now, I'd say the jury is out on his abilities sans competition. I am not saying you are wrong, only that it is a bit too early to tell.

Gary

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Originally Posted by Ken

had 12 years to prove it.......what did we see...

a complete reversal on the original vision...

3 title sponsors come and go

4 manufactures come and go

the loss of ovalcentricity

TV ratings for the series drop over 50%....and more and more regulated to the duece...and now versus


make no mistake...I'm happy with the merger....what i have been presented on track is a plus any way you slice it...

but from a biz standpoint.....IC point that its still standing and thats a start is just wrong

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Exactly which part of: "it proved that in the face of opposition from another open wheel series vying for the same drivers, owners, fans and sponsors that he couldn't flourish." didn't you understand?

You made the point that the past 12 years proved TG could not flourish. I think it only proved he could not do so while there were two series. Each point you countered with to that statement occurred during that period of two series. What do any of those prove, now that there is only one series? Nothing, yet. And the operative word there, as I said before is YET.

History may prove you right, but the history is not yet written on the whole story. It is only complete on the two series era. And in that single context you are right, it proved he could not flourish. You know that, I know that, King George knows that, everyone involved in any way knows that.

Gary

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

Sounds like a pretty good start to me.

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This would be considered a pretty good start if the IRL had started this year. But it didn't.

It is now beginning it's long road to recovery which started with the merger, after a poor start which nearly killed AOWR and saw the Indy 500 lose it's prestigous place in motorsports.

Ken, Gary has said it best. The scenario has changed from what was argued about for 12 years. It is informative of your agenda when you start bringing up past history about the IRL and do not place it in the context of the situation at the time.

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Originally Posted by Ken

can you back either of those up

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Latest published reports put it at an actual 18% across the board rise in ratings.

As far as attendance I'm just going the visual that the stands look more crowded at each event and the commentators always seem to mention it. I suspect that even if I sent you to an IRL link stating the exact number you'd despute it.

Most reasonable fans would agree attendance is up.

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

Latest published reports put it at an actual 18% across the board rise in ratings.

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http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html...icle&sid=88428

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

Latest published reports put it at an actual 18% across the board rise in ratings.

As far as attendance I'm just going the visual that the stands look more crowded at each event and the commentators always seem to mention it. I suspect that even if I sent you to an IRL link stating the exact number you'd despute it.

Most reasonable fans would agree attendance is up.

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if you could link those published reports that would be great....


and i think it's clear a handful events have been up...but certainly some have been flat....look no further than last week...track announced capacity sell out crowd and it looked just as half full as the year before....take a second and actually stair at the photo's...there interchangable

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Originally Posted by indycool

Ken, you keep harping on what you try to make others believe was TG's "original vision." o.

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come on ic....can you actually with a straight face tell us the IRL is currently what TG told you it was going to be 14 years ago

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Originally Posted by indycool

Ken, you keep harping on what you try to make others believe was TG's "original vision." And you keep going back to it.

Things change. Situations change. Circumstances change, throughout life. I do NOT share your view of TG's "original vision." Changes have occurred. I plan to play golf tomorrow. But if rains cats and dogs, I'll probably pass on it. If a check you're looking for comes on a Monday instead of the previous Friday, for two days, you just hafta deal with it.

CART's "vision?" Certainly not bankruptcy. CC's "vision?" Certainly not bankruptcy. The IRL's PRIMARY vision? To be a racing league with more ovals centered around the Indianapolis 500. One of the three has been successful in doing what they set out to do.

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Originally Posted by Ken

come on ic....can you actually with a straight face tell us the IRL is currently what TG told you it was going to be 14 years ago

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Where did he say it was? I hated and still hate that original vision, but thankfully it no longer exists. IC clearly said things change, he said NOTHING about todays IRL being the same as the original vision.

Gary

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Originally Posted by Ken

if you could link those published reports that would be great....

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Best I could do for now. Up 28% according to this.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor...1c-cover_N.htm


If you think they're down please provide link.

This article puts viewership up 17%.

http://edmontonsun.com/Sports/CarRac...f-6189086.html