The split is the biggest part of open wheels history and it will alway be a hot topic.Just like AJ Foyt, Andretti & Unser its part of the history of the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
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The split is the biggest part of open wheels history and it will alway be a hot topic.Just like AJ Foyt, Andretti & Unser its part of the history of the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
I agree the split is a huge part of our history, but some keep going over it, when we all disagree who's at fault, and this thread is more about momentum and possible, changes in this modern era of the sport, to keep the sport in the lime light all season and not for just one race.
Here's my two pence/cent's worth : It's all TG's fault. Always will be, but as much as think he is at fault, he has made some really good moves recently and I hope the IRL goes from strength to strength. But I really miss CART/CCWS.
I hope this weekends race is great, I hope all the teams and drivers are safe, I hope the fans pack the grandstands and have a great day.
I JUST WISH I COULD SEE IT SUNDAY!!!!!!
EVERYONE ENJOY THE RACE THIS WEEKEND>
Let us see the history: The United States Auto Club sanctioned the Indianapolis 500 in 1995. The United States Auto Club sanctioned the Indianapolis 500 in 1996. Where is the break away?Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
The rules for the chassis and engines were the same in 1995 and 1996. Where is the break away?
Yes, 25/8 was brought in July of 1995, after the April 3rd, 1995 meeting at the O'Hare Hyatt Regency Hotel in Rosemont, IL, in which CART voted to change their rules of the chassis thus locking themselves out of the 1996 500. There is the break away.
Not Tony. 25 car owners that thought they were bigger than the sport.
If you limit the context only to Indy, then of course that is correct. But who sanctioned the rest of the races those folks ran in 1995? It wasn't USAC it was CART. In that wider context, it was indeed Tony who broke away.Quote:
Originally Posted by !!WALDO!!
Gary
Nope, because the IRL had two races with no conflict. If CART drivers and teams had showed up then they would have earned 22 spots of the 25 and the IRL would have died a quick death.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
See changing the rules, rules in January of 1995, they voted down and then after racing and losing Phoenix they voted that rules package in.
See in 1995 both USAC and CART were working together on a rules package that would run from 1996-2000. The new car would be wider cockpits, driver moved back and higher side pods. A brand new car. CART voted to keep the rules of 1990-1995 in place as it was a hardship on some CART teams. USAC had to follow the lead of CART and who did USAC represent? IMS and the upstart IRL. So in January USAC/IRL wrote their rulebook and three months later CART changed their vote causing two different formulas to exist.
So how did Tony do anything? Want to blame someone, blame Buddy Jobe as if he had not been tossed out of his own box at Phoenix and threaten with arrest by CART officials then maybe he wouldn't have dumped CART in favor of the IRL. Then 3 days later CART wouldn't have changed their rules and certain other things would not have occurred and the two could have raced together at least in 1996.
(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)
CART was only at Indy because they sued in court to be allowed to be at Indy or CART would have died a long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Interesting. Maybe sometime I will be able to tell the true story about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
CART did not enter the car of 6 teams properly and USAC dissallowed the entries. A Judge ruled that CART did violate the rules but not the Spirit of the rules.
JRs book is confused as the only lawsuit for a restain of trade was Danny Ongais/Ted Field suit against CART for running Pocono that year, a USAC race.
(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)
Based upon my interpretation of the dialog in the preceeding 7 pages of this topic. The split is alive and well to these writers on both sides of the argument.
History is the past. There is a line in the "Optimist International's Creed" that states: "Forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievement of the future."
It's Friday in USA before a holiday meant to remember those who fought and lost their lives to give us rights like the one we use here as we write what we want to say. Let's spend some time to remember those men and women and put our differences aside for the weekend.
Bob Riebe: It's been two years, and the open-wheeled-racing arguments rage on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
The Nethead here will try to get up to speed on US open-wheeled racing that I haven't really followed after USAC restricted Andy Granatelli's 1967 STP turboshaft racecar into non-competitiveness--and then followed that insult up with injury by banning AWD after Colin Chapman's ill-fated turboshaft Lotuses (Surely the plural isn't "Loti"?) nearly won the 1968 Indy 500 despite their restricted intakes. What BS I've seen at Indy...
At least I hear that CART and the IRL have re-unified, if only so that they could get within knife and straight razor range of eacn other...
So, Bob, please sum up the current status of US open-wheeled racing in three sentences so I can play it by ear in this topic--stuff I make up is always better than stuff that has even an iota of truth in it anyway! What sorta fuel(s) do they use now? What sorta displacement regs/boost regs/etc. regs are they using now?
I sent you a PM via www.motorsportforums.com, too. I may not be able to respond before Tuesday since I leave on a three-day in 24 minutes...
The Nethead here, survivor of the old AutoWeek forums :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!WALDO!!
Again, I have no aregument with those facts. But still think that, as you put it, the "upstart IRL" can be considered by some as the break away. All I said in this conversation was that until the formation of the IRL, USAC santioned INDY and CART santioned the rest. By forming the IRL, Tony chose to break away from that paradgim, knowing that teams would have to decide between CART and the IRL on the rest of the races besides those two that didn't conflict. I wasn't attempting to place blame or anything else, just clarifying the notion of why many folks thougt of IRL as the break away.
Gary