The Ferrari thread !

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22nd August 2010, 00:53
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamy

I would assume button does also

Well then, your assumption is wrong.

:vader: PS - lets not get all stupid now and begin a Jenson bashing session - okay?
22nd August 2010, 00:57
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

I agree, and using the word 'freak' is particularly harsh considering Niki's unfortunate appearance. Abit too personal for my liking. :down:

Thank you.

What Niki Lauda went through and the courage it took to return and then win the title in 1977 - this is a very special individual. God bless him.
22nd August 2010, 01:06
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Respectfully, I am surprised you admire that perspective considering you hated the notion that two British drivers were being marketed through Mclaren at the beginning of the season as an all British team. Nationalism has no place in F1 you said?? :confused:

It is not nationalism.

Nationalism is an ugly anti-concept because it is not based on love for one's country and affection for that which comes from it, such as Ferrari.

Nationalism stems from emotionalism - superiority, arrogance - "my country right or wrong", hubris and everything that is usually associated with a brutish mentality.

Mclaren might market the team as an all British team but it is coincidental. Martin Whitmarsh did not decide to hire Jenson because he was British.

The National Front is not the sort of company that Mclaren tends to keep!
22nd August 2010, 13:43
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

I agree with the Whisperer on Lauda. Bitter old freak.

How thoughtless of you. :down:
22nd August 2010, 18:14
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

I agree with you on this, but when I said at the beginning of the season I was excited by the concept that Mclaren had an all British line up, I was accused of being a nationalist. I'm certainly pleased this stance didn't last, and some of us can maintain a certain amount of national pride when our countrymen do well. Much like the pride Italians have with a team that is proud of it roots. Its definately not the sinister national arrogance which was suggested back in early December.. :)

The problem is that sort of comment sits uncomfortably with me and it can be nationalist. On the face of it, I so interpret it as such and I would take issue with it everytime.

I still do not agree with supporting someone just because they are from the same country.

Ferrari himself rejected hiring Italian drivers just because they were Italian. Niki Lauda did not like the emotion that flowed in Italy over Ferrari but had to manage it - he did not race for Austria any more than Alain Prost declared that he did not race for France either and actually preferred English teams.

Both drivers were typically unsentimental about THEIR racing, Lauda giving away ALL his trophies while Prost gave aeverything away except his four FIA WDC trophies and the helmets he wore when he clinched his four titles.
22nd August 2010, 21:54
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Well I do and I'm very comfortable with that. I support England in football, cricket, rugby and motorsport and I don't see why I should be labelled in the same way as some racist from the national front by anybody thank you. You can keep those remarks to yourself.

Excuse me - where did I label you personally?

I do not aim points at people - I write in terms of what is being discussed.

And you may support someone merely because they are from England, that is your prerogative, but that is not what I do. Thats all there is to this matter.

And in addition I demonstrated that drivers such as Lauda and Prost never drove for their countries either - which is the correct attitude in my view.
23rd August 2010, 06:14
mstillhere

[quote="henners88"]Well I do and I'm very comfortable with that. I support England in football, cricket, rugby and motorsport and I don't see why I should be labelled in the same way as some racist from the national front by anybody thank you.[/QUOTE

I agree with you on this one and I think millions of fans of any sport from all the world would agree with you as well. I know people who support teams of different countries but based on my experience is rather rare. And I don't necessarely see the "nationalism" in sports linked with political nationalism. I think people keep these two things well separated.
23rd August 2010, 08:42
Mia 01

Max follow Nikis trail.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/63...-docked-points
23rd August 2010, 09:55
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Comparing the marketing of the Button/Hamilton pairing as comparable in any form to the Ferrari story shows a lack of historical knowledge.

Ferrari were intially a success story for Italy at a time when very little else was. Ferrari helped restore Italian pride after the disaster of Mussolini and the destruction of the country, politically and physically, during WWII.

Putting two British drivers in the same team in 2010 because Vodafone think it would sell some more phones is not in the same league.

Not by a long, long, long way.

When you understand the difference, when you can understand what Ferrari means to the Italian pysche, then you will see why.

Of course, the importance of Ferrari as a symbol of Italian success does not have the same gravitas if you are unaware of the history of Italy.

This is a different sort of nationalism to which I think Mr Devote is recoiling.

That nationalism, which I assume is the sort promoted by the original Silver Arrows, was indeed both brutal and ugly and sinister.

The national pride produced by the Ferrari story is an altogether more benevolent entity.

Well, by your logic, I can understand why Ferrari don't have Italian drivers? :rolleyes: :confused:
23rd August 2010, 10:00
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, by your logic, I can understand why Ferrari don't have Italian drivers? :rolleyes: :confused:

I think this is being extremely unfair. Apart from the fact that Ferrari prefers to have the best drivers from the grid in their team, I have read somewhere that the trauma of Bandini's crash at Monaco resulted in Enzo preferring not to become involved in F1 races himself, and his preference not to have Italian drivers because of how he suffered from that occasion.

Of course, others will come up with different reasons, but that's what I read many years ago.

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