The Ferrari thread !

as usual we have the back against the wall, the world hates us, wants us to leave F1, most prestigious and long standing F1 team arguements being rolled out.

For me this has nothing to do with any other teams actions, or even any of Ferraris past actions.

Each case on its merits, and on those merits i choose to condemn the actions of the Ferrari team. I would have done the same if it was Mclaren or Force India.

I don't want Ferarri to leave, they are one of the top teams and a great draw in F1, the sport would be poorer without them, but i don't think that gives ANY team carte blanche to ride roughshod over the rules.

I'd expect any team found guilty of an indisgression punished, and as i said, each case on its merits.

I may not always agree with the motives or the evidence, but ultimately as a fan i respect the right of the governing body to enforce their rules as they see fit, even if its against "my team"

i do grow tired of the usual "Ferrari basher" jibes that get trotted out every time someone has the gall to call the team on something they don't agree with.

as i've posted before, Blind faith is just as dangerous as Blind hate

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I agree with the Whisperer on Lauda. Bitter old freak.

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:eek: Come on F1 - thats a horrible thing to say. You are not one of the people here that usually make remarks like that.

Regardless what Niki says he must always be responded to with the respect and reverence that he deserves.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

as usual we have the back against the wall, the world hates us, wants us to leave F1, most prestigious and long standing F1 team arguements being rolled out.

For me this has nothing to do with any other teams actions, or even any of Ferraris past actions.

Each case on its merits, and on those merits i choose to condemn the actions of the Ferrari team. I would have done the same if it was Mclaren or Force India.

I don't want Ferarri to leave, they are one of the top teams and a great draw in F1, the sport would be poorer without them, but i don't think that gives ANY team carte blanche to ride roughshod over the rules.

I'd expect any team found guilty of an indisgression punished, and as i said, each case on its merits.

I may not always agree with the motives or the evidence, but ultimately as a fan i respect the right of the governing body to enforce their rules as they see fit, even if its against "my team"

i do grow tired of the usual "Ferrari basher" jibes that get trotted out every time someone has the gall to call the team on something they don't agree with.

as i've posted before, Blind faith is just as dangerous as Blind hate

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:D Respectfully - you dont understand the passion that is Ferrari.

It is a passion that will scream and throw the toys out of the stroller and perform histrionics that appear as if Armageddon is approaching.

But it is also one that calms down quickly and will smile and after the event will ask for an autograph from the object of their derision.

It is the same passion of the tifosi. Ferrari remember is not a team - the drivers race for a country!

If anyone has ever been to Monza in September - they will understand and always be understanding of Ferrari - as well as Niki.

If you can understand Super Rats' relationship with Enzo Ferrari then you understand everything.

:D If you love motor racing you have to love Ferrari - always. It does not mean you will be a fan or a supporter - but it is Ferrari and at the end of a race if it has beaten everyone including your favorite driver - how can anybody that loves racing for its purity not be emotional with pleasure?

Forza Ferrari - but of course Jense first!

I wish Jenson was rather driving Ferrari than a Mclaren [sigh]!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

:D

I wish Jenson was rather driving Ferrari than a Mclaren [sigh]!

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I would assume button does also

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Originally Posted by henners88

Respectfully, I am surprised you admire that perspective considering you hated the notion that two British drivers were being marketed through Mclaren at the beginning of the season as an all British team. Nationalism has no place in F1 you said?? :confused:

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Comparing the marketing of the Button/Hamilton pairing as comparable in any form to the Ferrari story shows a lack of historical knowledge.

Ferrari were intially a success story for Italy at a time when very little else was. Ferrari helped restore Italian pride after the disaster of Mussolini and the destruction of the country, politically and physically, during WWII.

Putting two British drivers in the same team in 2010 because Vodafone think it would sell some more phones is not in the same league.

Not by a long, long, long way.

When you understand the difference, when you can understand what Ferrari means to the Italian pysche, then you will see why.

Of course, the importance of Ferrari as a symbol of Italian success does not have the same gravitas if you are unaware of the history of Italy.

This is a different sort of nationalism to which I think Mr Devote is recoiling.

That nationalism, which I assume is the sort promoted by the original Silver Arrows, was indeed both brutal and ugly and sinister.

The national pride produced by the Ferrari story is an altogether more benevolent entity.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Ferrari's principal sponsor market cigarettes to children in developing nations, I hardly think this registers on their ethical barometer :s

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Let's not leave out Jordan, Renault, Williams, Lotus, McLaren, BAR/Honda, etc. Then we can talk about the alcohol companies "marketing to children in developing nations."

I always thought it was up to parents to teach their children morals, not corporations? Perhaps I should dump my Goldman-Sachs account that pays for my daughter's college and stop filling my car with BP products.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

"This time, good old Niki has missed out on a fine opportunity to keep his mouth shut, given that, when he was a Scuderia driver, the supposed Ferrari driver management policy suited him perfectly... That aside, where was all his moral fury when, over the past years, so many have been guilty of more or less overt hypocritical actions?"

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Yep. I seem to remember Niki having something to do with a certain Carlos Reutemann leaving Ferrari. Seems he was a bit to quick for Niki's taste and management took care of Niki's "problem."

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Originally Posted by Tumbo

Would have been excellent to see him track down his team-mate and execute a clean pass on its own merits

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Yes, but Alonso prefer the easy way by complaining to his team to let him pass. It was this race and one other time he was behind Massa. There is a clear driver preference in Ferrari.

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Originally Posted by wmcot

Yep. I seem to remember Niki having something to do with a certain Carlos Reutemann leaving Ferrari. Seems he was a bit to quick for Niki's taste and management took care of Niki's "problem."

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Where did you get THAT story?

Reutemann joined in 1977 and Lauda left Ferrari before the end of the season as the world champion for other reasons and a simmering frustration with the team built over the previous years.

Carlos Reutemann left the team at the end of 1978.

While at Ferrari - Lauda did not get on with Reutemann because he did not like him. Lauda did not believe in teammates either and it was only years later that he mellowed towards the Argentinian.

And out of the 15 races they contested Niki beat Carlos 8 times in qualifyingincluding a pole position and he had 3 wins to Reutemann's 1.

Lauda never asked for help from management - he sorted it out himself.

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Originally Posted by tmx

Yes, but Alonso prefer the easy way by complaining to his team to let him pass. It was this race and one other time he was behind Massa. There is a clear driver preference in Ferrari.

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I recommend you watch the Grman Grand Prix - Alonso had Massa's measure from when early in the race he tried to overtake but was chopped and had he pursued this then what do YOU think the result would have been? Smiles or tears?

Then see how miserable Massa's life at Ferrari would be made.

Then there was Massa constantly almost losingthe car under pressure and his inability to keep a gap to Alonso.

Any team in motor racing has and will always take the measures that Ferrari did.

After all - who do you think is more likely to be world champion? Massa or Alonso? Clearly it is the Spaniard.

And if Massa does not tidy up his pathetically petulant performance I reckon it is not probable that he will see out his new contract term.