74th PZM Rally Poland

What's wrong with safety in Rally Poland? Here's 2 pictures that explain a lot. Clue: This is the 'before' one https://t.co/bGRQlVujdS https://t.co/ANWGBaxiAM

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/co...-rally-poland/

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Originally Posted by Zeakiwi

Are there any estimates on Rally Finland speeds?.

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Fast, but 140 km/h for most of the stage is apparently ok if you add some chicanes

Continuing the subject of safety & more specifically safe spectating:
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/ne...ge-of-wrc-axe/

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Originally Posted by steve.mandzij

Not even NOT can spew out such shit like this.

If you don't care about spectator safety you are not a rally fan, because thanks to spectators who couldn't take care of themselves your beloved Group B was banned. If people don't take the same precautions now then we won't have rally at all. That's not what you want, unless, that is, you don't really like rally.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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No, Group B was banned because of knee-jerk overreaction by some FISA bureaucrats to a couple of deaths. And that's what bureaucrats do after all deaths, because their job as they see it is to cover their own asses, damn the consequences to the rest of us.

I love this sport for what it was, and what little of that remains in it despite every attempt by the FIA to get rid of it. You are the lot who think the sport would be the same if it was sanitized to be perfectly safe. Except you don't think about what that entails, because... well... I don't know why you don't think about that. But you should.

PS. Maybe he doesn't say it in the most tactful way, but a lot of what NOT says on a lot of subjects is the truth. But with most people it's all about saying things in pretty, friendly, non-confrontational ways. I don't care about that at all. I read something and I ask myself, "Is what this person is saying objectively correct or not?" You would all do well to do the same.

Can N.O.T. please send his brother to his room?

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Originally Posted by EightGear

Can N.O.T. please send his brother to his room?

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Cool, cool. So no argument, no logic, just subtle digs. And you will win the debate, because your opinion is extremely popular. Safety is the most important thing, right? "There can be no compromise on safety!" Those are the actual words of Yves Matton. https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/ne...ge-of-wrc-axe/

Never mind that if there is no compromise on safety, there is no motorsport, because any motorsport is fundamentally less safe than no motorsport. It's so blatantly illogical that it is hard for me to understand how someone can say something like that, but there it is. And I bet you agree with him. Brilliant.

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

Okay, you would literally prefer to have another rally driver growing old somewhere than have all the memories of Group B. Okay.

Your same kind of person would rather have a bunch of no names around than have explored the New World, or have reached the moon, or have achieved anything in life. Any time that anything requires any kind of sacrifice, fuck that, right? Because we can do it a safer way, and if we can't, it's not worth doing. Right?

That is a pathetic attitude. But worse than that, it's a hypocrite attitude, because we both know that you wouldn't give a shit about rally if you didn't have those memories of Group B, and if the drivers weren't completely insane heroes.

You people all talk real pretty, but look deep inside yourselves for about ten minutes and ask yourselves what you truly love about rally, and then ask yourselves, "Is that actually SAFE?"

And if you answer yes, then shut up, because you're goddamn liars.


Now let's break down some of this bullshit:


"I fail to see what is exciting about a firebrigade truck going against the competitor on stage (even going in opposite direction alone is a big no
no)."

Actually, that was mildly exciting to see on TV. Even though I couldn't see it on TV. I watched it on youtube like 5 times. It was a big fuck up. That's exciting. If you can't see that, I can show you a million people who can see it.

"IMHO the event shall not be part of WRC even when the stages are super exciting until the organiazion is able to handle it."

Hopefully English is not your first language, and you meant "should not" instead of "shall not". Don't worry, it's not my first language either. But I think I'm right in saying: The event should be part of WRC because the stages are super exciting, even if the organization is not able to handle it, because we are not a bunch of fucking little girls who will sue each other if we get a broken nail.


"Trust spectators to accept the consequences? Accidents, injuries and death, yep that would work well, just ask the families left behind and drivers like Paddon and Mikkelsen and many others...."

OK, so you don't trust spectators to take care of themselves? You don't trust people to take care of themselves? They're too stupid to take care of themselves? They need someone smart like you, or Jean Todt, to take care of them because they're too stupid to make wise decisions? OK.

I mean, what? OK Paddon and Mikkelsen killed two people in the last like 10 years of rallying, and one or two more killed their co drivers. What, does that mean we shouldn't have rally any more? I know what you're going to say. Because you're a hypocrite, you're going to say, "Of course we should have rally, but we should try our hardest to avoid this in the future" Guess what. Trying your hardest to avoid it in the future means not having any more rally. That is the hardest you can try, and I guarantee that will avoid this in the future. But you aren't willing to do that, are you, hypocrite?

"Crowing about safety? You can never, ever be too vocal about safety. "

OK, here's me being too vocal about safety: We shouldn't allow any spectators. They shouldn't be allowed to touch the cars. They shouldn't be allowed to step onto the track in any way. They shouldn't be allowed to help out the drivers. It should be like F1. Actually it should be tougher than F1. Everyone should stay at home and the drivers should drive on roads closed to everyone. Even cameramen. In fact the drivers themselves shouldnt be exposed to danger, they should drive remote controlled cars through Richard Burns Rally and everyone should watch from home through WRC+.

Is that not too vocal about safety? Goddamn people don't actually think about what they're saying. Take a fucking philosophy class or something. Learn to think. Do better than our FIA masters. Motorsport is INHERENTLY dangerous. There is no amount or version of motorsport that is as safe as not doing motorsport. Therefore any motorsport fan is a fan of some amount of danger. You people think you're right because you're nice. But nice isn't always right. Sometimes it's wrong, and harmful to what you actually love. Learn that.

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Interesting reply to my post.

Out of interest, what age are you?

30 in a few days. I do apologize for some of the language in that post, reading it back now. I was pretty riled up about something entirely unrelated. I stand by the main points, though.

Don't You feel that there is something wrong about argumenting by an era which was already over when You were born? You know things look different when decades pass and only stories are beying told.

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

30 in a few days. I do apologize for some of the language in that post, reading it back now. I was pretty riled up about something entirely unrelated. I stand by the main points, though.

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What you might not appreciate is that many people here understand some of the points you were trying to make, even if you presented them in pretty awful way. However, some of the things you don't seem to grasp:

1) That rallying doesn't exist in a vacuum.
2) That we can't go "back to how things were" - this is true to everything in life in general, btw.

And believe me, I remember the Group B era well - I was there to see it live. However, I do not see it as a glorified golden era like so many others. There were enormous issues with safety back then - issues that definitely should not have been ignored then, but are totally impossible to ignore nowadays.

Also, If you haven't noticed the motor industry in general is in the middle of it's biggest change probably ever. Motorsport is not the hottest thing right now either. Rallying especially is a vulnerable sport in many ways, as the competition is not held on purpose-build courses where safety and other issues can be monitored on a wholly different level, unlike basically most other types of motor races.

The negative impact of a huge incident involving spectators (or competitors, but especially spectators) in a WRC rally would be enormous. We who truly enjoy this sport understand this, and are willing to sometimes compromise to safeguard the future. Sure, I dislike the modern "walled garden" spectator areas common in most WRC events as much as almost every rally fan. However, I also understand that this is necessary, especially in WRC events which bring in lots of spectators not familiar with rallying or motorsport in general. In a modern top level event there has to be a certain level of safety - otherwise there will be soon no event to follow at all.

And sure, you might not always get to the best spot in these modern events, like you used to in the "good old days". That is the price way pay - deal with it.

If you really want to support rallying, go to your local events, there you can almost always get to the best spot, even with the increased safety standards. Even better, at the same time you are supporting the local motoring club and safeguarding the future of rallying. And if you want to go all out in your support - get into marshalling as well. Not only you get to see the "safety issue" from totally different viewpoint, you are also becoming a vital part in making the event happen year after year.