Israel refuses peace negotiations

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Originally Posted by Eki

Where is Arabia? Arabia is a language, not a piece of land. You could as well say the Israeli Jews can go back to Hebrew where they came from.

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I must admit this made me laugh. Is this the level of geography lessons in Finland?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Peninsula

Their language is called Arabic BTW, not Arabia or Arabian or anything like that.

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Can you show me a genuine map printed before the Ottoman rule that says "Israel"?

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Here are quite a few:
http://www.google.co.il/images?q=anc...N&hl=iw&tab=wi

Of course they weren't printed back then. I sure as hell know there aren't and never been any maps from those times that read 'Palestine' because the term only began to be used in 1917.

http://www.google.co.il/images?q=anc...N&hl=iw&tab=wi

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm sure they'll agree to that if you agree to go back to your cave :)

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Aw heck, I'm rubber you're glue, every thing you say bounces off of me, and stick to you.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Where is Arabia? Arabia is a language, not a piece of land. You could as well say the Israeli Jews can go back to Hebrew where they came from.

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Geez, your mother should ban you from ever using the wiki again.

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/Fie...opoLabels.jpeg

"The Arabian peninsula (Al-Jazira) is bounded by the Red Sea to the west, the Arabian Sea to the south and the Persian Gulf to the east. To the west, the Hijaz and Asir mountain ranges form a barrier from the sea. Further west, the Tihama is the coastal plain of the Red Sea. In the north, the An Nafud and 'Hamad deserts separate Saudi Arabia from Iraq and Jordan. The Rub' al Khali (empty quarter) in the southeast is a vast and generally impenetrable desert. An Nafud, a sea of enormous shifting sand dunes, was supposedly considered impenetrable until T.E. Lawrence crossed it in 1917 to attack Aqaba with his Arab allies.

The Arabs have been known in the Middle East at least since the time of Shalmanesser II in 853 BC. Arabia has been the home of several apparently distinct Semitic peoples in numerous tribes, all known as Arabs, for much of recorded history. The relatively high rainfall of Yemen and easy access to the sea made it the home of several prosperous kingdoms, including Saba (possibly the biblical Sheba), Himyar, Qataban, Minea (Ma'in) and Hadramaut. The Romans called Yemen Arabia Felix (Happy Arabia) The area was the source of frankincense and myrrh and also a relay point for spices coming from the East. An additional kingdom of Zufar was situated in the area of the modern Oman"

The House of Saud, rules the greatest part of Arabia, which is why it is called Saudi Arabia.
Are you really that ignorant, of are you just acting semi-literate for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Rani

Here are quite a few:
http://www.google.co.il/images?q=anc...N&hl=iw&tab=wi

Of course they weren't printed back then. I sure as hell know there aren't and never been any maps from those times that read 'Palestine' because the term only began to be used in 1917.

http://www.google.co.il/images?q=anc...N&hl=iw&tab=wi

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Those maps look new. Of course it's easy to fabricate them now and claim they're pre-Ottoman. You don't have any evidence that there was a country called Israel before 1947.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Geez, your mother should ban you from ever using the wiki again.

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Geez, I'd wish. My mother died two years ago.

Did you notice that the Arabian Peninsula includes what is now called Israel?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

As a human race we've moved on so much in the last 70 odd years. What the Israeli's are doing now is just as unpalatable as what Hitler did all those years ago.

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Who is we?
Who made them god.
Yes we have moved on, the human race has created illegal drugs now that are far more destructive to the human body than seventy years ago.
Africans have thrown off Imperial rule, and modern tech. that came with it and now simply torture and hack each other apart.
Human race, about as pathetic and the current Indianapolis race.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Those maps look new. Of course it's easy to fabricate them now and claim they're pre-Ottoman. You don't have any evidence that there was a country called Israel before 1947.

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I know how much you love quoting wikipedia so here's one for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...rael_and_Judah

Next you'll say the word Israel was made up in 1948 and claim it's all a conspiracy.

I'm done giving you evidence to things you just say you don't believe are real. Maybe Bob is right and you are just a troll.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Geez, I'd wish. My mother died two years ago.

Did you notice that the Arabian Peninsula includes what is now called Israel?

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Main Entry: pen·in·su·la

: a portion of land nearly surrounded by water and connected with a larger body by an isthmus; also : a piece of land jutting out into the water whether with or without a well-defined isthmus


Show me what part of Israel is surrounded by, or justs out into water.
No wait that's right there is not such thing as Arabia, in your world.

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Originally Posted by Rani

I know how much you love quoting wikipedia so here's one for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...rael_and_Judah

Next you'll say the word Israel was made up in 1948 and claim it's all a conspiracy.

I'm done giving you evidence to things you just say you don't believe are real. Maybe Bob is right and you are just a troll.

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Oh, you're using Bible and other obscure texts as a map and a travel guide. If you want to go that way, also the Philistines are mentioned in the Bible and obscure texts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines
Although it seems that the Jews only consider this as Palestine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleshet

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Pleshet is the Hebrew name for what might otherwise be called the "land of the Philistines" according to the Hebrew Bible (see Book of Genesis 21:32, Exodus 13:17, 1 Samuel 27:1, Joel 3:4).[1]
The term refers to the coastal region that stretches roughly from Gaza in the South to Ashdod in the North. The five main cities of the Philistines during the time of the Kings of Israel were Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Geez, I'd wish. My mother died two years ago.

Did you notice that the Arabian Peninsula includes what is now called Israel?

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Are you saying that Israel is part of a country called Arabia now?

Maybe Finland is part of a country called Lapland then?

Are you aware of the fact that 'region', 'country' and 'language' mean different things?

I like it better when Camelopard posts against Israel, at least he knows some facts and doesn't just babble. I'd expect someone with such extreme opinions as you (Eki) to at least know what you're talking about. I don't mean to insult you but you are showing quite a bit of ignorance over the last posts.

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Originally Posted by Rani

Are you saying that Israel is part of a country called Arabia now?

Maybe Finland is part of a country called Lapland then?

Are you aware of the fact that 'region', 'country' and 'language' mean different things?

I like it better when Camelopard posts against Israel, at least he knows some facts and doesn't just babble. I'd expect someone with such extreme opinions as you (Eki) to at least know what you're talking about. I don't mean to insult you but you are showing quite a bit of ignorance over the last posts.

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Eki is starting to look more and more like a troll, as I doubt he actually did not know what Arabia is and is not.

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Originally Posted by Rani

Are you saying that Israel is part of a country called Arabia now?

Maybe Finland is part of a country called Lapland then?

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It's not so simple. Some seem to think that Finland is in Scandinavia, when in fact only Lapland part of Finland is part of the Scandinavian peninsula. Thought you knew that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Peninsula

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The Scandinavian Peninsula is a geographic region in northern Europe, consisting of Norway, Sweden and part of northern Finland.

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Originally Posted by Rani

Of course they weren't printed back then. I sure as hell know there aren't and never been any maps from those times that read 'Palestine' because the term only began to be used in 1917.

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Before the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the Levant (now there's a work which Eki won't have heard of either), it was all part of one eyalet called Şam or Syria.
Syrioi was the Greek word for Ashur, which itself was capital of the Assyrian Empire.

Palaistinē is a Latin word imposed on the area by the Romans in 63BC. The name otherwise was the Iudaea Province, or Judaea.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Oh, you're using Bible and other obscure texts as a map and a travel guide. If you want to go that way, also the Philistines are mentioned in the Bible and obscure texts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines
Although it seems that the Jews only consider this as Palestine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleshet

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Even the palestinians themselves don't consider themselves descendents of the philistines. Just like australians don't consider themselves austrians just because their names have a similar ring to them.

The philistines spoke an ancient indo-european language that has nothing to do with arabic. They are related to the greek mycenaeans. Sorry but I don't see any resemblence between palestinian arabs and greeks. Some of the music might sound similar but that's about it.

I see you've come to the stage of panicky babbling and unsubstantiated rambling.

BTW I know exactly where lapland is. I've seen maps of the place and studied it in geography lessons in the sixth grade. I think the arabian peninsula was on my second or third grade curriculum.

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Originally Posted by SOD

I read this as:

Dear israel,

now that we no longer need you to be our b*tch in the ME.

We want you be a buffer between ourselves and the restless Mexicans.

Signed,

A reasonable American

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works for me !!!!

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Originally Posted by Rani

...Of course they weren't printed back then. I sure as hell know there aren't and never been any maps from those times that read 'Palestine' because the term only began to be used in 1917.

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Well, I think the "Land of Canaan" pre-dates both the "Kingdom of Israel" and the "Land of Palestine", but to say that "Palestine" existed only after 1917 is as silly as saying that "Israel" existed only after 1948 :mark:

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Originally Posted by Rani

Even the palestinians themselves don't consider themselves descendents of the philistines. Just like australians don't consider themselves austrians just because their names have a similar ring to them.

The philistines spoke an ancient indo-european language that has nothing to do with arabic. They are related to the greek mycenaeans. Sorry but I don't see any resemblence between palestinian arabs and greeks.

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The Philistines according to the Torah are descendants of Ham.

The Palestinians are Arabs, therefore they are descendants of Ishmael, Abraham and ultimately Shem; therefore like the Jews are Semitic.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Well, I think the "Land of Canaan" pre-dates both the "Kingdom of Israel" and the "Land of Palestine", but to say that "Palestine" existed only after 1917 is as silly as saying that "Israel" existed only after 1948 :mark:

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Well, I never said that. I said the name Palestine has only been used widely since the brits occupied here in 1917.

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Originally Posted by Rani

Well, I never said that. I said the name Palestine has only been used widely since the brits occupied here in 1917.

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Speaking of the Brits, it was they, after careful study, declared they could determine no sense or signs of Palestinian unity or national identity that would be a problem with the creation of Israel.

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Originally Posted by Rani

BTW I know exactly where lapland is.

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Didn't seem that way. We were talking about peninsulas. Lapland isn't a peninsula. Scandinavian Peninsula is a peninsula, just like Arabian Peninsula is a peninsula. Lapland is part of the Scandinavian Peninsula, not the other way around. Your analogy was faulty.

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Originally Posted by Rani

It's not my fault they listened to their brothers in the arab armies who told them they should get out so they could return afterwards after the arab armies would reclaim the land in 1948. They were promised they could return and claim all the riches of the jewish settlements. I feel sorry for them that they listened.

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not supported by the facts.

widely believed amongst Israeli historians that it was ethnic cleansing.

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Originally Posted by SOD

not supported by the facts.

widely believed amongst Israeli historians that it was ethnic cleansing.

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Widely believed among extreme left wing historians like Pappe. Israeli historians don't have a monopoly on information anyway. If Mahmoud Abbas himself and former PM of Syria say the arab nations had a big part who am I to argue? Mahmoud Abbas has every interest to claim it was all the jews' fault, as that would help his global cause. Yet he doesn't. Interesting.

The US promised the Palestinians $400 million to rebuild what Israel has destroyed, and will destroy again. Jag must be a happy puppy.

It's not a problem. We don't have the money. Tell them to go get it from Arafat's widow in Paris, if any of the scruffy-looking bustards can get through the hotel lobby.

women on the flotillas were beaten by the israelis.

nice people.

Gen. David Petreus "Israel is a strategic liability to the interests of the USA"

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Originally Posted by SOD

Gen. David Petreus "Israel is a strategic liability to the interests of the USA"

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Considering the fact that nobody, including Obama, knows what our foreign policy is anymore, thats just an opinion. I don't doubt that slowing selling out our butts to China is a strategic liability also.

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Originally Posted by SOD

women on the flotillas were beaten by the israelis.

nice people.

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Thats always a problem when the men run away faster than the women can.

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Originally Posted by SOD

women on the flotillas were beaten by the israelis.

nice people.

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I've shown videos of soldiers stabbed, clubbed and lynched. I've also shown pictures of soldiers being dragged downstairs with their guts open. Do you have any evidence to back your claims ?

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Originally Posted by Rani

I've shown videos of soldiers stabbed, clubbed and lynched. I've also shown pictures of soldiers being dragged downstairs with their guts open. Do you have any evidence to back your claims ?

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Why would you be offended by the statement? Ever heard of equal rights and women's lib? Women now serve in combat units in many armies, including the IDF. Women are used as suicide bombers. If a woman chooses to put herself in harm's way, it should come as no suprise when she gets harmed. Maybe women were beaten on the ship. They'll get over that faster than they will being suicide bombs.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

Why would you be offended by the statement? Ever heard of equal rights and women's lib? Women now serve in combat units in many armies, including the IDF. Women are used as suicide bombers. If a woman chooses to put herself in harm's way, it should come as no suprise when she gets harmed. Maybe women were beaten on the ship. They'll get over that faster than they will being suicide bombs.

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I am offended by this because I didn't see any women participate in the violence, and there were no reports of any either. If they were stabbing and shooting, I see nothing wrong with protecting one's life against any attacker be it man, woman, animal or terrorist.

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Originally Posted by SOD

women on the flotillas were beaten by the israelis.
...

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Source?

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Originally Posted by Rani

I've shown videos of soldiers stabbed, clubbed and lynched. I've also shown pictures of soldiers being dragged downstairs with their guts open. Do you have any evidence to back your claims ?

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And I show you evidence that pigs talk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myyb4FUUMwI

None of the Israelis on the ship died, so it's hard to believe they were "guts open".

Gaza blockade is economic, not for security, says Israel

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/0...#ixzz0qSOTiCqD

Rani, how do you comment this video?

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/95

Funny that the first time they let me watch it right away, but the second time Youtube asked for signing up for age verification. I'm sure the next Israelis will have it removed from Youtube.

It's a good thing the article says "apparently being shot" because if anything, the "shooter" seems to be using the verticle foregrip pump, cock, or cycle the action on the weapon. Those movements would be consistant with a spring powered paint-ball gun as they were reported to have carried. There would be no need for that kind of movement on an MP5, M4, Galil, any of the Uzi varients, or any other weapons their special forces use. In addition, there is no indication of any muzzle flash.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

It's a good thing the article says "apparently being shot" because if anything, the "shooter" seems to be using the verticle foregrip pump, cock, or cycle the action on the weapon. Those movements would be consistant with a spring powered paint-ball gun as they were reported to have carried. There would be no need for that kind of movement on an MP5, M4, Galil, any of the Uzi varients, or any other weapons their special forces use. In addition, there is no indication of any muzzle flash.

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OK, can you now explain how it's evident from those poor quality videos that the Israelis were attacked with iron rods like the Israelis claim and not with wooden sticks?

And then you could explain how the Israelis scored nine confirmed kills and six missing aid workers using just paint ball guns and the aid workers scored nil.

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Originally Posted by Eki

OK, can you now explain how it's evident from those poor quality videos that the Israelis were attacked with iron rods like the Israelis claim and not with wooden sticks?

And then you could explain how the Israelis scored nine confirmed kills and six missing aid workers using just paint ball guns and the aid workers scored nil.

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The only thing I have disputed is that the video is proof of a shooting, using a firearm. It does not seem to indicate anyone being shot by a long or compact firearm. It has been stated by Israel that their troopers were armed with real pistols and paintball guns. If the alleged shooting in the video had been done with a pistol, a muzzle flash would have been plainly visible. You can shoot and kill people with real pistols.

As I have not commented on anything else, I see no need to explain anything else.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

It's a good thing the article says "apparently being shot" because if anything, the "shooter" seems to be using the verticle foregrip pump, cock, or cycle the action on the weapon. Those movements would be consistant with a spring powered paint-ball gun as they were reported to have carried. There would be no need for that kind of movement on an MP5, M4, Galil, any of the Uzi varients, or any other weapons their special forces use. In addition, there is no indication of any muzzle flash.

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Flash suppressor/hider?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnmn...eature=related

Not likely. Flash suppressors aren't for hiding a muzzle flash completely. They are there to help protect the shooter's night vison. Back when you were in the army if you had cut the flash suppressor off your Valmet and fired it at night you would have seen a big yellow blast about the size of a beach ball. If you fired it about 6 times in a row that big yellow ball would be the only thing you'd see until sunrise. For all practical purposes, a flash hider changes the flash shape from a ball to a cylinder shape to make it easier on your eyes. The enemy already knows you're there because you're shooting at him. Anyway, the muzzle flash in the video would have been visible briefly in that dark of a setting as it reflected off equipment, goggles, bulkheads, etc. There is the possibility that the frame rate of the camera being used was too slow to catch it. There's not enough evidence in that video to prove it shows a shooting, which is why they used the word "apparently". For all I can see, especially with that pumping motion, they could be feeding somebody candy out of a high tech Pez dispenser.