Don't forget an engine update. https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-m...gine-upgrades/Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
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Don't forget an engine update. https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-m...gine-upgrades/Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
DirtFish
@DirtFishRally
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Jost Capito and Francois-Xavier Demaison have both left their positions at Williams F1 ��
no testing this december for Monte like in previous years https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-a...e-in-december/
So basically they've cut the testing days in half (from 42 to 21) without even publishing it during the last WMSC, Nice! (did see a rumour or two about them cutting the testing days).Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Maaasssive cost saving! (Nobooody but bs PR cares about it.)
I would bring testing to 1 day only. All the drivers get to see the car and sit in it. Should be enough.
Great plan to ,,kill'' WRC pretty fast.
So let me get this straight…
If Ford rents 2 extra cars in Monte. Can they give the “renters” half a day of testing and the rest of each of those days, Tanak drives…? Can that be done?
Is it one day per car? Or one day per car that is declared for points?
TOYOTA CAUGHT OUT BY HYUNDAI’S RATE OF DEVELOPMENT
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-ca...f-development/
No, unless these drivers are entered by the "works" M-Sport team. If it's a WRC Team (like Toyota NG or whatever it's called) or a privateer, then it won't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by atsiotras79
And I think that 2022 had some extra test days because of new tyres or something like that.
2021 had those extra days I think: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-t...tra-test-days/ in 2022 it was tasked to Kalle Rovanperä to test the tyres for the new cars: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pirel...ith-rovanpera/Quote:
Originally Posted by Co-driven
Rumour that Petter Solberg will drive on the Classic Safari in Kenya 2023, but I presume this is false……
not really a WRC rumour :)Quote:
Originally Posted by J4MIE
Yes, 2021 had 9 extra days (I attached part of the WRC Regulations from 2021 - sorry, I don't know how to add the image to the text).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
And for 2022 it was one day per driver per European round, I think it's the same as 2023 regulations.
As far as I know, Pirelli development should've been done by one Finnish driver, but in the end the teams demanded that they were directly involved in the testing and that's way they had these extra days, as mentioned by you.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solbe...with-toksport/
So from rumours of going with Ford to conformation going to Škoda’s Toksport, guess it was pretty much anticipated at this point since we saw them test a few days prior.
I wonder whats up with Mikkelsen for next season? We know he will not drive in WRC2 (or at least in Skoda) and WRC1 teams are all but set. So that basically leaves..... nothing?
Mikkelsen is testing the Skoda today in Finland
Would be a shame not to see Meeke and Mikkelsen in the Skoda considering they were the two main development drivers
A story on Mikkelsen and the hyundai-mess:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00063747062910
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The story by google translate, Par Ferme has the story, Norways leading motorsportsite.
The future in Skoda is uncertain for Andreas after the Hyundai mess - We are working on the matter, says the rally profile with an optimistic undertone.
RALLY: It was earlier this autumn that Parc Fermé could reveal that Andreas Mikkelsen had almost felt cheated by Hyundai's factory team in the Rally WC with a view to a contract for next season. The Oslo man claimed to have received the go-ahead for a minimum of six races, that the draft of the contract had been fully approved and that only one signature was missing. Suddenly, Hyundai is said to have turned on the run-up side and chosen another. Subsequently, it has become known that Hyundai has signed Craig Breen and Esapekka Lappi alongside their regular duo over many years, Thierry Neuville and Dani Sordo. Parc Fermé presented the criticism to Hyundai Motorsport, but they themselves did not want to comment on Mikkelsen's experience.
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Part 2
In any case, this has now had worse repercussions than before for Mikkelsen. Because even though he and Skoda have had an open dialogue about his position in the rally circus and what opportunities he must seize if they arise in the top class, the open dialogue has probably struck a small blow to Mikkelsen's face. Because both Mikkelsen and Skoda were so sure that the Hyundai deal was in the works that Skoda instead implemented plan B with other drivers. And then it has become a bit more difficult for Mikkelsen to turn around and stand in the doorway with his hat in hand again. - Yes, everyone was sure that I was going to Hyundai next year and everyone made plans for it. So when that didn't happen, new solutions had to be worked on, says Mikkelsen to Parc Fermé. Nothing is nailed down A Norwegian wishful thinking is to link him up to M-Sport, who recently signed Ott Tänak as their clear first driver for next season after they parted ways with Breen a year early. Formally, two places are still available. M-Sport, which has minimal factory support from Ford, is primarily dependent on drivers who have their own sponsors and their own budget - while Mikkelsen, for his part, does not want to end up in this booth of so-called paid drivers. Therefore, the probability preponderance has been on Skoda and their high-stakes customer team Toksport WRT, until it is now clear that there appears to be little room for him. They already have WRC 2 champion Emil Lindholm and Russian Nikolay Gryazin on the team, and a number of other drivers are also knocking on the door of Toksport WRT, who are also happy to have their own funds. - Right now, nothing is nailed down. I'm working on next year, but I don't know if it will be in a Skoda or something else, he says.
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About Mikkelsen and Hyundai, I think the story is true because the leak in the news clearly sounds to come from Mikkelsen’s side (maybe not him directly) and I don’t see the point for them to criticize Hyundai for free in his situation looking for a Rally1 drive.
About Mikkelsen and Skoda, I think it a bit differently (I don’t think it’s a timing issue).
I really think that at the end of 2019, Skoda wanted to end its works program as a racing team and not anymore having pure works driver (even if supporting partially some but all manufacturers do so in Rally2); also because winning with a works driver, even more if he is a former WRC driver is not as good as winning with client or youngsters in terms of ad for the brand.
But as they lost all the big titles in 2020 (WRC-2 against Ostberg, WRC-3 against Huttunen and ERC against Lukyanuk), they thought they needed a former WRC driver to counter Ostberg and they took Mikkelsen (who didn’t have other serious offer considering he doesn’t to pay to drive). It works in 2021 and at the beginning of 2022, the young Toksport bunch was not reliable enough to bet all on them against Rossel, Suninen or potentially Ostberg. But as Toksport now has a driver with Rally1 experience (Lindholm) who can be considered as a reliable driver for Rally2, they don’t need anymore Mikkelsen whose WRC experience was hiding a bit the quality of the car in winning. As Mikkelsen doesn’t want to pay to drive, they know the risk is very low to see him as a competitor in 2023. Only risk Skoda takes in my opinion, now that Mikkelsen has missed Rally1 opportunity, is that Mikkelsen is hired by Toyota to help to develop the Rally2 car (if his Skoda contract was not including a non-competition clause, which is possible though because Mikkelsen had some early exit option to join Rally1 so probably there were some counterparts).
It is just an hypothesis but it’s how I see what happened between Skoda and Mikkelsen and I think the Hyundai stuff is not really linked with it (we know for a couple of months about Hyundai having cheated Mikkelsen so Skoda could have took him back).
Loubet confirmed in the second Puma
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc...e-for-new-duo/
Really great news, i hope he can take the next step this year, he should be used to with the car now, and if he can and is willing to learn from Ott, and Ott is there to aid him i think he will do very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
I digress on Skoda having reliable drivers now. Lindholm was first in the finish of a single rally this year and even there he wasn't fastest. Had fancy moments both in Spain and Japan when he "just" had to drive to finish. He only beat Mikkelsen who effectively had 2 less rallies by a few points and could have also lost to Kajo.
Solberg has similarly only been fastest Rally2 at the finish of a WRC rally once.
Suninen and Rossel are a real and tough competition. Maybe Paddon as well if he gets a program.
So Skoda could risk not winning the title with a new car, something I am quite sure they aim for. On top of that they also potentially risk him going to Toyota to develop the new car.
Yes, if Toyota ends up with Mikkelsen develop theire Rally2, that was probably not in Skodas plans.
Give him some Rally1 drives too, to keep him warm.
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NEUVILLE ENTERS RACE OF CHAMPIONS FOR FIRST TIME
HYUNDAI'S WRC LEADER WILL TAKE PART IN THE ICE AND SNOW EVENT NEXT YEAR
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuvi...or-first-time/
You mean Solberg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
from ita and french media, delocour was supposed to contest monte with puma, but car is no more available.
info come from a social post directly from delecour, that was cancelled soon after, so maybe there's still hope?
supposed livery in the article:
https://www.rallye-sport.fr/f-deleco...u-monte-carlo/
According to Finnish Magazine Vauhdin Maailma reigning Finnish Champion Mikko Heikkilä has been hired to do the development testing for Toyota Rally 2Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Good driver with some good speed, not too much works-oriented (to avoid VW mistake of a too complex car for common client), we can understand the pros of taking a local one but his experience in Rally2 is not that big (3 years and around 30 rallies, still reasonable) and over all, his experience outside Finland (and a couple of Baltic rallies) is extremely weak (less than 5 rallies with no big result).Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Probably they will try to target a lot the Nordic countries but they should at least hire a Central Europa or Southern Europa counterpart (especially about tarmac) to have a more versatile vision and there are some interesting drivers not linked to any brand today and with some good Rally2/R5 experience (Nil Solans or Eric Camilli for example); it’s what Skoda did for example with a variety of drivers taken in the test (Mikkelsen, Lindholm) even if they had for sure one lead test driver (Meeke).
Toyota need more than one for that job, and one that knows the newest Skoda Rally2 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Juho Hänninen is their main test driver and almost sure that also Toyota´s Rally1 drivers will drive some testing. Still have to say that Mikkelsen or Huttunen would have been better than Heikkilä, because he is lacking the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
Well it didn`t state that he was the only one hired for testing, just that he was hired. So they can hire 10 more as well if they wantQuote:
Originally Posted by rp
That´s true. Also Nikara and Latvala are available from their own staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
I know about Hanninen always making the first job on the new Toyota cars but, even if he has more experience, he is now too much outdated to be alone to do the job (2 years since his last drive, 5 years since his last serious campaign and 10 years since his last RC2 drive).Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
It’s a bit like Meeke (and even worse), he can be in the process, he can make the very first tests after producing the test car but they need some current drivers to help to the development and give an opinion compared with current cars in race conditions. It’s what Skoda did with Mikkelsen and Lindholm.
About other names than Heikkila, issue may be about the contracts for the Skoda drivers; Lindholm is probably backed by Skoda, even partially, this year so impossible to hire him now; and for Mikkelsen and Meeke, to be seen if they have not signed a non-competition clause or stuff like that forbidding them to do the same job for another brand during 1 or 2 years maybe?
And Huttunen, well, his last experiences in development were not that convincing even if, yeah, he is more versatile so he would have been more interesting.
And as said above, Toyota may hire at least one other guy to complete the view on it.
While it makes sense to get a few different opinions, and it doesn't hurt to have current competitors / the next bright young thing driving your test car, what you're saying about Hanninen being 'outdated' is (and I'm trying to be polite here) absolute garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
In fact, the best riposte to that is two words: Lasse Lampi. He only ever achieved a single podium at WRC level, but is widely renowned to be one of the greatest test and development drivers of all time.
Did his last full season in 1994, but worked full-time well into the 2020s with WRC teams, either as a test driver, consultant, adviser, test road selector... he's one of the reasons Mitsubishi / Makinen won as much as they did.
A lack of recent competitive experience does not mean a driver can't test and develop a car properly. Having a lot of recent competitive experience does not mean a driver CAN test and develop a car properly (cough Citroen C3 WRC cough).
And last point - some manufacturers spend too much time worrying about what their competitors cars can or can't do, what their opposition is or isn't doing, rather than concentrating on just making the best damn car they're capable of. I expect Toyota won't fall into that trap.
I stay totally on my position; a driver with good experience but outside of the game since too long can make the beginning development job and a lot of mileage but you absolutely need an updated driver in the final year phase of the development to have a comparison against competition with a clear updated user-oriented view.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
And you can say whatever you want about ‘garbage stuff’, all the teams that work correctly work like this; take M-Sport for example: Matthew Wilson is their equivalent of Lampi for the beginning work but they always then puts another updated driver to test it at the same place (Tanak in 2016; Fourmaux in 2021).
Toyota in Rally1 same stuff: Hanninen made the beginning job last year and then, through half-season, Evans and Rovanpera began their tests.
Skoda: Meeke makes the development but then, they take Mikkelsen and Lindholm in addition.
It’s always like this and it’s logical: a driver in competition cannot free his calendar to make enough mileage to
So the teams hire a driver available with no competition to make this work and this mileage first:
- Hanninen in 2013 for Hyundai and 2015 for Toyota
- Meeke for Skoda last 2 years
- Matthew Wilson historically for M-Sport
- ...
And then in the final phase when you are needing the details, you take some other drivers more updated to test:
- your own drivers for RC1 team
- Mikkelsen and Lindholm for Skoda
- ...
And when you don’t, you’re often forced to hire a new one after 6 months of competition because the car is not developed enough: it’s what happened to Citroen to hire Ostberg and to Hyundai to hire Suninen.
I’m not saying Hanninen is useless; I’m saying you cannot develop a 2024 client-oriented car to compete Fabia RS with just Hanninen. To sum up, he can do 90% of the job but you absolutely need someone else to take the 10% that makes the difference with the other cars.
And it’s even more important for a client-oriented car because you must have some people thinking as a client and not as a professional driver.
Now that would be something, doubt it, but would be something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Possible in case Loeb can't make it from Dakar and RB wants to keep in good spirits with M Sport and Ford.
So according to this Tänak will be also supported by Red Bull?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira