Please Mikko, something different this time!! (an open letter)

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

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Originally Posted by RS

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I wonder what Wilson is thinking right now?

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Tanak and Bouffier?

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Or.....
http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-conten...ialatte-25.jpg

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He can not be that desperate :D

I can't see that MW will be that bothered, it's not like he's paying Mikko to do a job. As long as Mikko/his sponsors keep paying, he'll stay in the car.

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Originally Posted by Doon

I can't see that MW will be that bothered, it's not like he's paying Mikko to do a job. As long as Mikko/his sponsors keep paying, he'll stay in the car.

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Since they are not on the car, I don't believe Mikko's sponsors are paying for the drive. Just some expenses/wages for Mikko/Jarmo.

IMHO, Hirvonen will progressively retrieve his confidence race after race.

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Originally Posted by ironseb

IMHO, Hirvonen will progressively retrieve his confidence race after race.

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Are you 'Sebenfer' by any chance? If Hirvonen isn't able to cut it in Sweden it's highly unlikely he'll be better when the gravel comes.
He was clearly less competitive than Meeke on RMC

That's me ;)

Hirvonen need confidence. That's all. It's clear that he was slow at Monaco and not at his better level in Sweden but I'm sure that he will retrieve his level with a little bit of confidence. But that means that he needs time.

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Originally Posted by ironseb

That's me ;)

Hirvonen need confidence. That's all. It's clear that he was slow at Monaco and not at his better level in Sweden but I'm sure that he will retrieve his level with a little bit of confidence. But that means that he needs time.

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I think 4 years of "meh" performances is a good indication that confidence is not what he needs... Hirvonen is a "never been" and he will retire this way.

His Career should have over after the lame season in Subaru 2004, was slow and not very reliable the. He has been extremely lucky to have continued so long

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Originally Posted by COD

His Career should have over after the lame season in Subaru 2004, was slow and not very reliable the. He has been extremely lucky to have continued so long

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No. He was very fast when he joined Ford and even challenged Gronholm/Loeb some times... his spirit broke when he hit the iceberg called Loeb in 2010... from then on he is a lost soul.

I can´t really understand how a guy doing top 5 times on stages is a never been. For sure he´s not the same as for 4-5 yrs ago, but still. As long as he performs he´s not a "lost soul" or a "never been".

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

I can´t really understand how a guy doing top 5 times on stages is a never been. For sure he´s not the same as for 4-5 yrs ago, but still. As long as he performs he´s not a "lost soul" or a "never been".

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I agree with you. More than 60 podium in WRC, a lot of drivers dream about that.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

I can´t really understand how a guy doing top 5 times on stages is a never been. For sure he´s not the same as for 4-5 yrs ago, but still. As long as he performs he´s not a "lost soul" or a "never been".

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He is a never been... he never became champion... only losers dream about podiums...

Well I always liked Mikko, and he has still a good pace, but he won't ever come back to the speed he had back then. He was definitely the fastest driver after Loeb in those years (or at least the one who was able to collect more points thanks to his consistency), he had the opportunity of a lifetime in 2009 and 2011, thanks also to mistakes/retirements by Loeb and Ogier. But unfortunately he didn't make it. I really see no way for him to be back to that level...

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

I can´t really understand how a guy doing top 5 times on stages is a never been. For sure he´s not the same as for 4-5 yrs ago, but still. As long as he performs he´s not a "lost soul" or a "never been".

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He is a never been... he never became champion... only losers dream about podiums...

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He´d become champion in 2009 if Ford had played the cards right.

I can't remember too much what rules were in place when, but I have a feeling that running order rules at one stage gave a big advantage to Mikko. I remember about Malcolm protesting to keep it that way to help his drivers (rather than have them compete on actual speed)

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Originally Posted by focus206

Well I always liked Mikko, and he has still a good pace, but he won't ever come back to the speed he had back then. He was definitely the fastest driver after Loeb in those years (or at least the one who was able to collect more points thanks to his consistency), he had the opportunity of a lifetime in 2009 and 2011, thanks also to mistakes/retirements by Loeb and Ogier. But unfortunately he didn't make it. I really see no way for him to be back to that level...

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I see nothing wrong in what you´re saying, but the question was: is he a never been or a loser or even not worth a drive in WRC at the level he is at now?? For most of us here being viewers for decades he still deserves to be named as a top runner.

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Originally Posted by RS

I can't remember too much what rules were in place when, but I have a feeling that running order rules at one stage gave a big advantage to Mikko. I remember about Malcolm protesting to keep it that way to help his drivers (rather than have them compete on actual speed)

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Edit: see below.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

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Originally Posted by RS

I can't remember too much what rules were in place when, but I have a feeling that running order rules at one stage gave a big advantage to Mikko. I remember about Malcolm protesting to keep it that way to help his drivers (rather than have them compete on actual speed)

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No, MAlcolm gave away Mikkos points letting JML finish ahead of Mikko and not giving teamorders as every other teams always has done. And Mikko lost two points or something like that. That year he lost the title with one point.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

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Originally Posted by COD

His Career should have over after the lame season in Subaru 2004, was slow and not very reliable the. He has been extremely lucky to have continued so long

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No. He was very fast when he joined Ford and even challenged Gronholm/Loeb some times... his spirit broke when he hit the iceberg called Loeb in 2010... from then on he is a lost soul.

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NO(T). At the time he made his bakthrough, he passed many faster drivers who could have achieved same or more than he did.nthat is why he has been extremely lucky

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Originally Posted by COD

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

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Originally Posted by COD

His Career should have over after the lame season in Subaru 2004, was slow and not very reliable the. He has been extremely lucky to have continued so long

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No. He was very fast when he joined Ford and even challenged Gronholm/Loeb some times... his spirit broke when he hit the iceberg called Loeb in 2010... from then on he is a lost soul.

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NO(T). At the time he made his bakthrough, he passed many faster drivers who could have achieved same or more than he did.nthat is why he has been extremely lucky

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what more would someone else achieve ? who could have stopped the greatest of all times ? NONE

Hirvonen just lost his spirit after 2009... it was the end of him as a competitive driver... the only thing i do not like about him is that he quit trying after 2009... maybe he was afraid that he would end up like Gronholm, always trying to beat Loeb and always FAILED.

Mikko
Sweden should've been maybe top three. But this result is far better than a DNF and he will build on it I think.

My thoughts on this
If you were to put Tanak or Bouffier in a manufacturers car we could see the next Loeb. Or they will end up behind some privateer too. It's all about pressure.

It's easy to hit it off one time, in one event. But it seems some can't cope with the extra pressure of beeing in a manufacturers team.

Look at Novikov (to Ford)
Look at Duval (to Citroen)

The list is long. These were just some examples. I'm sure all these guys Tanak, Solberg, Bouffier and Hirvonen are more or less seriously fast. Some of them just need to get their head in the right place. Not competing on every stage with Ogier. Just themselves. Have a bit of fun then the speed comes.

I like to agree with the one who said Mikko has demons in his head which need to be sorted. I don't see how he would have lost his pace just because he's getting older or that he's "finished". There must be more to it.

Problem is that it's these sort of questions that probably run through his head.

One like Ogier hasn't had a really bad rally for long (and he should have credit for that) and he of course has 100 % self confidence. He drives without pressure. If he has a few bad rallys in a row we could see the same thing from him. The moment you start to have mind demons it all goes south.

Look at Grosjean in F1. He almost certainly thought "must not crash in start with a former WDC for the 3rd time in a row".
What happened?

Maybe it would be good for Mikko to step down from M sport and run a privateer car (like Petter did). I think he would be in front of the M sport guys. Then confidence would return.

Just my very personal opinion. If I'm later proven wrong then so be it. I like Hirvonen, think he's a top bloke as are many of the drivers in WRC. I wish him well and it's boring when it becomes a french affair again. Don't get me wrong - the two french have my fullest respect for what they have done. It's mind blowing.

OT
Maybe all the best of the rest need to change their driving style. Ogier and Loeb goes fast but with their style they have a bit of marginal. I feel some push too hard (JML, Mads, Neuville, Hirvonen) and it looks quick but they lose time. Maybe not much but it all adds up in the end?

I think Mikko's case is the classical big-crash-either-breaks-you-or-makes-you-faster scenario. The Finland crash broke him.

Never thought of that. Could be...

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

what more would someone else achieve ? who could have stopped the greatest of all times ? NONE

Hirvonen just lost his spirit after 2009... it was the end of him as a competitive driver... the only thing i do not like about him is that he quit trying after 2009... maybe he was afraid that he would end up like Gronholm, always trying to beat Loeb and always FAILED.

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You missed my point and probably many others. Most of you probably wore diapers back in 2004.

Look back at the results back then and you will understand why he should have never become a regular works driver. He had a few good years thanks to not much cmpetition and lots of testing and time in the car on events. But he has never been blindingy fast and never will be. A good no2 for any team and that is it. Now event that is questionable

i am still wearing diapers...whats wrong with diapers ?? they are perfectly fine...

you still need to answer who was better that Hirvonen back in the days he was works driver at ford (in subaru he was rubbish)..and what could they achieve more ?

can t understand all this about Mikko.
Simply his times are gone.
There are no drivers that can stay at their pik performance for so many years.Mikko had his chances,lost them,years passed,finished.
Its very natural,thats happens to all drivers.Ok Loeb was at pik for 10 years,but this is the exception and not the rule.

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Originally Posted by COD

But he has never been blindingy fast and never will be. A good no2 for any team and that is it.

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for few years was fast and reliable.I mean the years who was close with Master.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

i am still wearing diapers...whats wrong with diapers ?? they are perfectly fine...

you still need to answer who was better that Hirvonen back in the days he was works driver at ford (in subaru he was rubbish)..and what could they achieve more ?

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Diaper are good no question there. :D

My point was, at the time he was with Subaru, he was crap. And at THAT time, there were a lot more talented who should have gotten the Ford seAt instead of Mikko. Mikko got it and those others were forgotten, that is why There was only Loed and Mikko was the best of the rest. Had it gone other way, there might have been somebody other that Grönholm who could have challenged Loeb on speed.

The problem is not his speed I think, his motivation to fight seems to be gone, and it's not from 2010 onwards, it began in 2013 I think. Probably he thought he can get an easy title, but it was very wrong... Otherwise he is still young for retirement I believe, how much it is, around 35?

I have said it many times and I 100% agree with Franky. Mikko got cautious after that crash, was it 2010? And I still think Tommi had the same thing at Argentina. It's understandable if you say; Fcuk this I'm done, when you roll about ten times with your car. Some bonesheads never learnt that like Ari, Colin or Marcus. But we are all different.

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Originally Posted by COD

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

what more would someone else achieve ? who could have stopped the greatest of all times ? NONE

Hirvonen just lost his spirit after 2009... it was the end of him as a competitive driver... the only thing i do not like about him is that he quit trying after 2009... maybe he was afraid that he would end up like Gronholm, always trying to beat Loeb and always FAILED.

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You missed my point and probably many others. Most of you probably wore diapers back in 2004.

Look back at the results back then and you will understand why he should have never become a regular works driver. He had a few good years thanks to not much cmpetition and lots of testing and time in the car on events. But he has never been blindingy fast and never will be. A good no2 for any team and that is it. Now event that is questionable

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Well you probably wear diapers for the second time in life then mate. Old age sucks! What's the point in being so aggressive? :)

Maybe the Subaru days were a sign of things to come as you say. But I still believe that it comes down to not having a least bit fun and enjoing it when he drives. So maybe it would be time for a break. Let's see...

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I have said it many times and I 100% agree with Franky. Mikko got cautious after that crash, was it 2010? And I still think Tommi had the same thing at Argentina. It's understandable if you say; Fcuk this I'm done, when you roll about ten times with your car. Some bonesheads never learnt that like Ari, Colin or Marcus. But we are all different.

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Was just about to say Colin and Ari after reading Mcraes biography. You guys really have a point.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

for few years was fast and reliable.I mean the years who was close with Master.

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he was faster than the rest! jari matti was crashing too much, dani was really bad in gravel and petter in a privateer car. who else was there?? (henning, wilson, rautenback, vilagra and a young ogier) so with an average controlled pace he easily collected a lot of points

and as RS mentioned above most of these years Seb L was cleaning the road for him

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I have said it many times and I 100% agree with Franky.

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Yes, possible, but the question really is - "why I'm still doing it, it might happen again any time, pushing hard or not".

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

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Originally Posted by dimviii

for few years was fast and reliable.I mean the years who was close with Master.

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he was faster than the rest! jari matti was crashing too much, dani was really bad in gravel and petter in a privateer car. who else was there?? (henning, wilson, rautenback, vilagra and a young ogier) so with an average controlled pace he easily collected a lot of points

and as RS mentioned above most of these years Seb L was cleaning the road for him

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+1

@ stefanvv
Well, if Mikko dropped the from 100% to 90%, the level of recent WRC has been so low that it has been enough to steadily collect podiums and manufacturerpoints. Until couple of last years. I might be wrong, I've known to be wrong a few times ;) But just look at the date this thread started and read the open letter I made.... Suddenly the hunger was gone!!!

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

he was faster than the rest!

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yes.The rest was Solberg,Gronholm,Latvala,Ogier,Sordo,Atkinson.

at 2007 13 points less than Gronholm
http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2007&nat=

at 2008 19 points less from Loeb
http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2008&nat=

at 2009 1 point from Loeb
http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2009&nat=

at 2011 8 points less from Loeb and 18 points more from Ogier
http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2011&nat=

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

jari matti was crashing too much, dani was really bad in gravel and petter in a privateer car. who else was there?? (henning, wilson, rautenback, vilagra and a young ogier) so with an average controlled pace he easily collected a lot of points

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that was the competition these days,and thats not Mikkos fault.
example...
Ogier last year had competition from who? There weren t any champions,even there wasn t enough,just simple rally winners.Can we say that he was best of the rest for Ogier?
compare with whom was fighting Mikko,and with whom fighting Ogier.
Its not Ogiers fault that there are not so many good drivers.

Mikko wasn t slow at his days.

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

and as RS mentioned above most of these years Seb L was cleaning the road for him

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yes thats right.

Mikko´s speed compared to other drivers during the years is very hard to judge. Statistics is not enough. he was fast in the recent Ford years, he is one of 5 fastest guys at the moment. So what are we crying about. Whom should replace him? Evans? Tanak?

True is, I would say his mind is older and wiser. The Urria-crash and the fact he has a family makes him maybe more careful out there. There are explanation for everything.

But crying he´s finished and should be replaced is not a solution at the time being.

Hypothetically Tanak would be an excellent choice.

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Originally Posted by noel157

Hypothetically Tanak would be an excellent choice.

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But needs to show he's matured enough on other events - Maybe we'll see that in WRC 2 but other WRC rides is the only real yardstick. Too soon to say imo. BTW It will be interesting to see how Elfyn comes back from what I believe is his first major crash - though sadly, he's had major shocks before and not lost his resolve.