Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by ioan

Renault sack both Briatore and Symonds in order to save face, that's the 3rd option.

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It would be interesting whether Renault would turn up in Singapore. I can see certain parties being arrested on arrival and the cars impounded by the police.

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Originally Posted by tec4

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In the stewards' report about that interview, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, Symonds confirms that the race-day meeting between himself, Briatore and Piquet did take place.
The stewards reports added: "Mr. Symonds accepted that he had discussed with NPJ (Piquet) the possibility of a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, although he said the suggestion was raised by NPJ."
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ONLY in F1 does the above admission deserve immunity -- yet another sad day for corporate F1's "ANYTHING for MONEY" policy -- and we of course believe that it is ONLY Renault that SHOULD make such SAD admissions --blame the other guy to make it sound better? better? regardless of who gets blamed for raising such extremely SAD racing attitudes.

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Briatore, however, has claimed the meeting didn't happen at all, with Jr suggesting the crash or otherwise.

Repeat:
Jr says the meeting happened, and PS and FB put the idea to him.
PS says the meeting happened, and Jr put the idea to them
FB claims the whole idea is ridiculous and he had nothing to do with it.

None of those accounts is quite like the other, but one sticks out more clearly than the other two - and, even with PS' story, he and Flav automatically become accessories. And PS' interviews in the "Fit of PK" pdf a page or two back strongly, strongly suggest he was shielding Flav.

Ergo, they have a choice - nail PS to the wall, but have the case against Flav go down for lack of evidence, or make PS an offer he can't refuse...

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Originally Posted by Somebody

Ergo, they have a choice - nail PS to the wall, but have the case against Flav go down for lack of evidence, or make PS an offer he can't refuse...

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This would make PS a prime candidate for a chained Harry Houdini under water disappearing act. :p :

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That assumes Briatore initiated this. Perhaps he did, who knows :crazy: Offering immunity to two of the other principal participants in the alleged "race-fix" suggests publicly that the FIA think he did, and yet the WMSC hasn't met yet. That, IMHO, is the wrong way to go about things regardless of who is (or isn't!) involved.

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I agree, especially since, when all the evidence from Renault's side comes out, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Symonds could still appear decidedly guilty, yet he would be getting off scot-free (apart from his inevitable lack of future F1 employment, of course). That would be an unsatisfactory outcome for all.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

This issue has been mishandled from the start and ought to have be declared sub-judice and the investigation could have proceeded that way.

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Why? I don't see any grounds for keeping this out of the public domain. What should never have emerged are the remarks made by Briatore about Piquet's private life, which were totally unnecessary whatever the circumstances.

James Allen's take on the issue of immunity:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/0...s-of-immunity/

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

James Allen's take on the issue of immunity:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/0...s-of-immunity/

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Great article...

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Originally Posted by henners88

Renault will turn up in Singapore because the police have no rights to interfere with an FIA investigation unless the FIA ask for assistance. This may have been an example of cheating within a sport with a governing body, so if the police were to wade in a take action, then the FIA would be obsolete in their presence. It works in the same way that Raikkonen's speeding fine/penalty at Monza was not an issue for the police. This is why F1 has a governing body, and the only way police have an automatic right to be involved, is if a death has occured at a race track.... :)

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Thanks for the info...

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Why? I don't see any grounds for keeping this out of the public domain. What should never have emerged are the remarks made by Briatore about Piquet's private life, which were totally unnecessary whatever the circumstances.

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Where is the "Gay Pride" Piquet should be joyous this information came out! Oh Flavio you "Brute"

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Originally Posted by henners88

Renault will turn up in Singapore because the police have no rights to interfere with an FIA investigation unless the FIA ask for assistance. This may have been an example of cheating within a sport with a governing body, so if the police were to wade in a take action, then the FIA would be obsolete in their presence. It works in the same way that Raikkonen's speeding fine/penalty at Monza was not an issue for the police. This is why F1 has a governing body, and the only way police have an automatic right to be involved, is if a death has occured at a race track.... :)

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You've got it the wrong way around. Any Singaporean investigation would take priority over an FIA one

It is pretty easy to give immunity to Piquet because he is as done. So why didn't they give immunity to Flavio and go after Symonds.

Well I agree someone is going to be "Sleeping with the fishes" before this is all done and I really doubt it will be Flavio.

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Originally Posted by henners88

This whole situation is ugly and reading through the James Allen article it really hits home that the only people who are going to suffer in all of this are the Renault team. Potentially 400 employee's could very well be out of a job because of this, and I hope Piquet and his father considered this before they approached the FIA. Yes Renault may have done something unforgivable in terms of cheating, but they have now played with the lives of the loyal people working for them by even considering such a callous tactic.

I hope Flav, Pat and Nelson are lying awake at night knowing that the people back in Enstone are also losing sleep worrying whether the plug is going to be pulled on their futures. Cheating is one thing, but informing on fellow cheaters is appalling at the highest level IMO... :)

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So better that they keep quiet about it? WTF are you smoking?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I certainly don't suggest they keep quiet about it, where did you get that from? I make it pretty clear that what they may have done is unforgivable and I hope they realise that they have potentially played with 400 peoples futures. Lets get one thing clear, Nelson Piquet has not gone to FIA because he has the best interests of the sport in mind, or his moral conscience has got the better of him. He informed because it a good way of seeking revenge on his former manager and boss. Its a nasty retaliation which he knows is not only going to affect Flav but many others... I say all this without any aggression towards you by the way.. :)

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Peoples jobs are nothing compared to cheating. If they were going to be worried about jobs they should have worried before they cheated.

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Originally Posted by henners88

But why would the Singaporean authorities waste time and the best part of a million pounds plus investigating this, when the sports governing body is in place to do this anyway? I just can't see that happening myself, and if its near impossible to convict someone in an F1 team of corporate manslaughter, then a cheating allegation would just be expensive with no reasonal outcome.. IMO :)

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Because countries tend to have their own justice systems and tend to do their own thing?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Renault will turn up in Singapore because the police have no rights to interfere with an FIA investigation ...

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Unless the Singapore police start's their own investigation in this race fixing story, which they are 100% entitled to do.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Because countries tend to have their own justice systems and tend to do their own thing?

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:up:

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Originally Posted by fousto

It is pretty easy to give immunity to Piquet because he is as done. So why didn't they give immunity to Flavio and go after Symonds.

Well I agree someone is going to be "Sleeping with the fishes" before this is all done and I really doubt it will be Flavio.

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Nobody will be sleeping with any fish, you watched to many movies.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Nobody will be sleeping with any fish, you watched to many movies.

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Well I didn't watch "Brokeback Mountain" Must have been a big hit with Piquet!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Nobody will be sleeping with any fish, you watched to many movies.

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Finding Nemo? ;)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Peoples jobs are nothing compared to cheating. If they were going to be worried about jobs they should have worried before they cheated.

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I doubt the general staff knew anything of the plot (assuming its real). I understand your POV but IMO the punishment should be handed to those guilty of something - in this case Flab, Pat, PK jnr and any one else who attended the "meeting".

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Originally Posted by henners88

Renault will turn up in Singapore because the police have no rights to interfere with an FIA investigation unless the FIA ask for assistance. This may have been an example of cheating within a sport with a governing body, so if the police were to wade in a take action, then the FIA would be obsolete in their presence. It works in the same way that Raikkonen's speeding fine/penalty at Monza was not an issue for the police. This is why F1 has a governing body, and the only way police have an automatic right to be involved, is if a death has occured at a race track.... :)

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Really??? In the words of the infamous McEnroe, "Are you serious?"
I can list the following for you to deliberate on:
1. Race fixing,
2. Deliberately causing a crash which could endanger the lives of the driver, marshals, and spectators.

In fact, I could go as far as to say this has nothing to do with any FIA investigation as the FIA has offered to give Pat Symonds immunity, while the police in Singapore sure as heck do not have to obvserve this at all.

Now if you think that is not reason for a police investigation anywhere in this world, then please tell us why.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

I doubt the general staff knew anything of the plot (assuming its real). I understand your POV but IMO the punishment should be handed to those guilty of something - in this case Flab, Pat, PK jnr and any one else who attended the "meeting".

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You race as a team and you take the penalty as a team. McLaren sucked it up and now Renno will have to.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...338781942.html

This is what happens when you buck local laws. This one infers race fixing is involved.

I def think Alonso will have been in the know for this...

and him coming to Renault for this,he might have been better served keeping his mouth shut and sticking to mclaren

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Originally Posted by fousto

Well I didn't watch "Brokeback Mountain" Must have been a big hit with Piquet!

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Are you homophobic, or do you just not like houses?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Are you homophobic, or do you just not like houses?

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Why did you even bother asking? The answer is clear

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Why did you even bother asking? The answer is clear

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Aha, he's a caravan man is he..... ;)

I think that some people mistake bigotry with humour, and it's rather tiresome.

I prefer to poke fun at the bigots, it's very rewarding......

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

I think that some people mistake bigotry with humour, and it's rather tiresome.

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Besides, Fousto never discriminates against a particular class, colour, sex or persuasion. He hates everyone equally :laugh:

(Just joking Uncs, put the 7 iron away :D )

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Originally Posted by Daniel

McLaren sucked it up and now Renno will have to.

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Last time McLaren just threw Dave Ryan under the bus. That's what Renault will probably do.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Are you homophobic, or do you just not like houses?

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I thought it was obvious that fousto has a phobia about anything but guns.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Last time McLaren just threw Dave Ryan under the bus. That's what Renault will probably do.

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True, but that was different. That was just a comedic screwup.

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Briatore and Symonds leave Renault

By Matt Beer Wednesday, September 16th 2009, 11:10 GMT

Renault has announced that team boss Flavio Briatore and engineering chief Pat Symonds have parted company with the team and that it will "not dispute" the allegations of race-fixing when it appears before the World Motor Sport Council next week.

The team had been accused of asking driver Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately in order to cause a safety car period that would work to his team-mate Fernando Alonso's advantage. The Spaniard went on to win the race.

"The ING Renault F1 Team will not dispute the recent allegations made by the FIA concerning the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix," said a statement from the team.

"It also wishes to state that its managing director, Flavio Briatore and its executive director of engineering, Pat Symonds, have left the team.

"Before attending the hearing before the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on 21 September 2009, the team will not make any further comment."

More details to follow...

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78668


So what, does that mean they were guilty?

Blimey.

Maximum respect to Renault for being proactive. I suggest it will reflect favourable on them at the hearing. I don't expect much punishment to happen although they are liable for the conduct of their employees. Suspended sentence or fine I think.

As for Symonds and Flav, can they still be summoned and punished by the FIA now or just banned.

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Originally Posted by Powered by Cosworth

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78668


So what, does that mean they were guilty?

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Wow! :D Flabio never to be seen in F1 again by the looks of it :D

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Originally Posted by Powered by Cosworth

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78668


So what, does that mean they were guilty?

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Maybe.

Guilty or not, I think Carlos Ghosn may have kicked them both out to prevent the whole team being dragged through the mud, whatever the outcome.

However...

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As the Renault team - rather than Briatore and Symonds themselves - has been charged over the allegations, today's announcement by the team is unlikely to have any bearing on next week's hearing.

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Not good for Fernado, he has now been involved in two scandals, one with Ron and one with Flav. Both he was inocent in of course and was fully unaware.

Renault have done the right thing do you think they will pull out of F1 now.

Now Fernado will be going to Ferrari, to be annouced in the next couple of days, if not this afternoon.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

I prefer to poke fun at the bigots, it's very rewarding......

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I agree!

Renault out of F1?

Symonds to be be black listed along with Mike Couglin?

Who cares about Briatore's future? :D

Well done Piquet Jr, looks like you will never ever get to be near an F1 factory, let alone test an F1 car ever again!