Israel refuses peace negotiations

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Yes, its all infertile desert over there which is why Israel and the Occupied Territories' main exports are still agricultural products. Ever heard of Jaffa oranges?

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Is any artificial watering used to grow them?

I didn't say all the Middle East is infertile desert. There are oasis even in Saudi Arabia, aren't there?

So Rani, since you won't answer my question about Begin, do you think that Irgun and the Stern Gang were terrorists?

They seem to fit the classic profile of a terrorist group to me.

When we blame ourselves, we feel no one else has a right to blame us

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Originally Posted by Camelopard

So Rani, since you won't answer my question about Begin, do you think that Irgun and the Stern Gang were terrorists?

They seem to fit the classic profile of a terrorist group to me.

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I think the bombing of the hotel was a terrorist act, but I also think that giving warning to all in the hotel and giving them a chance to flea means that these people wanted to make a political statement more than they wanted to take lives. Other than that you could find that Begin targeted British installations and posts, which I think is legitimate resistance (that's also why I don't call it terrorism if a Kassam rocket hits Nitzanim army base).
I don't think you can call Begin a terrorist on these grounds, and you can't forget that as PM he orchestrated the peace with Egypt.
Did you know that in Deir Yassin The Irgun and Lehi (you call this the Stern gang) gave up the element of surprise by warning all woman and children to flea before the fighting insued? They were actually warned by loud speaker. Instead of running, they stayed, and a lot of the men dressed up as women in order to kill non suspecting Israelis by confusing them and concealing weapons.
There is that difference of fighting like men and hiding behind local population I keep mentioning again.

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Originally Posted by Rani

There is that difference of fighting like men and hiding behind local population I keep mentioning again.

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What would you say about this incident where undercover Israeli agents went to Argentina and kidnapped Eichmann:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/03/ob...20and%20Belief

It's not about the moral of it, since Eichmann certainly got what he deserved, but the principal: You just don't sneak into another sovereign country and kidnap civilians there.

Some may say that the end justifies the means. Maybe, but then they should excuse the Palestinians for using the means they have. They don't have a large organized military with sophisticated weapons like Israel, so they must use what they have: rocks, suicide bombs, molotov cocktails and homemade rockets.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Some may say that the end justifies the means. Maybe, but then they should excuse the Palestinians for using the means they have. They don't have a large organized military with sophisticated weapons like Israel, so they must use what they have: rocks, suicide bombs, molotov cocktails and homemade rockets.

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I agree.
Kidnapping a key element in the most ruthless killing machine "man" ever made = throwing rocks at civilians who foray into Ramallah by mistake http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=211229 = suicide bombings in Park Hotel, Netanya in a mass Passover eve; "The Passover Massacre" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_massacre= molotov cocktalis thrown on civilian cars near Al Khadr; I can't link this but Iwas near myself = shooting home made rockets at babies http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1196847352499
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Out of pure curiousity, tell me what would you do if you had a chance to bring the murderer of your (and millions other) grandparents to justice in court but bureaucracy was in the way and he was livin' it large somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Rani

Out of pure curiousity, tell me what would you do if you had a chance to bring the murderer of your (and millions other) grandparents to justice in court but bureaucracy was in the way and he was livin' it large somewhere?

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What would you do if millions of foreigners moved in your neighborhood and squeezed you out to some miserable refugee camp?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAHHjfUxERY
favorite quote: "For me life has little value because I'm returning to my lord" - My guess is the girl who says it is about twelve years old. My brother is almost twelve. Most of the time he just plays Maple Story.

Btw what kind of response do you expect from posting that link? It resembles a hopeless life that they don't have anything they can expect from this transitory life because of justice they can't obtain in this life. Has this ever been crossed in your mind?

I think would be much worthwhile to contribute a piece of effort to achieve the real definition of peace in that region, rather than defending who is the rightest? I think this is as simple those refuse the talk of peace deserves to blame.

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Originally Posted by Rani

I think the bombing of the hotel was a terrorist act, but I also think that giving warning to all in the hotel and giving them a chance to flea means that these people wanted to make a political statement more than they wanted to take lives. Other than that you could find that Begin targeted British installations and posts, which I think is legitimate resistance (that's also why I don't call it terrorism if a Kassam rocket hits Nitzanim army base).
I don't think you can call Begin a terrorist on these grounds, and you can't forget that as PM he orchestrated the peace with Egypt.
Did you know that in Deir Yassin The Irgun and Lehi (you call this the Stern gang) gave up the element of surprise by warning all woman and children to flea before the fighting insued? They were actually warned by loud speaker. Instead of running, they stayed, and a lot of the men dressed up as women in order to kill non suspecting Israelis by confusing them and concealing weapons.
There is that difference of fighting like men and hiding behind local population I keep mentioning again.

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I keep mentioning this again, if Timothy McVie had broadcasted his group's intentions of bombing the building in Oklahoma City and warning people to leave, this would not have made it a terrorist act?

It seems very much to me that there is one law for the zionists and another law for the Palestinians.

Had you seen or read Jimmy Carter's book, "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid"?