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Consumption taxes by nature fall most squarely on the poorest people in society and those people who have retired as they move into periods of dissaving. Consumption taxes are always advocated by people whose incomes exceed their need to spend it on consumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Sales Taxes, GST, VAT - whatever you like to call them, are in my opinion, quite quite evil.
:D All taxes are quite evil. Though necessary too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I strongly disagree. Properly set up consumer taxes allow basic needs to be lower tax or tax exempt, and tax rates to rise as the items become a luxury vs need. Some of our state and local taxes are already structured in this way, and it's very effective. As an example taxes on food items is only 2.5%. Taxes on prepared meals or beverages is 10.5%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
One difference being that unlike federal income taxes, you can't go into a store broke and leave with money due to "credits". This is another failing of our current tax system, where part of it is in fact assistance/welfare/etc rather than a taxation system.
We also have age and income limits locally, where older and less financially secure individuals hit a tax "ceiling" that freezes their property tax and prevents them from being hit by housing value fluctuations and the like.
People spend their money to live. I'm not eating out less because they raised taxes on prepared meals. And when you consider all the under the table money never taxed, the amounts are huge. Even the drug dealers and businesses who grossly cheat their receipts have to buy cars, fuel those cars, etc. Unless they want to make money they never spend, the consumption taxes force them to pay to get products in return.
I hear you, but therein lies the problem. Big corporates already contribute massively to taxes, VAT etc. We may think they are getting away with not paying enough but in reality, they pay a substantial amount. If you try and tax them more they move their operations/money to tax havens and then you are worse off. I've done that, found a loop hole in our system and until they close it, I'm saving a fortune in taxes each year as we are taxed to death over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
A better idea is to spread the tax base to a broader reach. An example is in our country there are over 20 million registered workers but only 4.5 million tax payers (excluding companies). The other 15 million odd are exempt as they are below the "income tax line". Now, I'm sure most of these 15 million odd workers can afford say US$ 50 a year towards tax. Now that adds up to US$ 775 million extra each year. This can be carried over to small businesses that are exempt from taxes etc etc. Now we haven't really harmed anyone too badly there, but do this over a number of areas with minute taxes and suddenly you have an extra few billion dollars to pay for something.
But, all this is in vain if our governments keep spending without thinking/planning ahead. Problem is, taxes aren't really their money, it's our money and it's far too easy to spend other peoples hard earned money and not worry about the end result/problems later on. My biggest problem is most politicians are complete idiots elected by complete idiots (that's right I'm talking to the citizens/voters), after being financed by smart people who put them there with corporate campaign finance to run for elections and then these corporates want their money back from benefits, contract preferences, rebates etc. It's a dog eat dog world out there in political-business world partnership.
In the end, it's only you and I that suffers and trust me, the politicians don't give a feck about us, they only care about the X you put next to their name come election time.
:laugh: Well, let's be honest here. Where does anyone find US$ 15 - 20 trillion to pay back a debt? No one! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
The problem is the US controls so much of the worlds economy to the point that, if it doesn't start getting it's house in order, and soon, the world economy is going to sneeze really badly, worse than the 2008/2009 period. Hell, half of Europe is about to collapse at the moment!
The problem here is that lower income people rely more on "fast food" than you think. When you're working two jobs its difficult to get home to fix a meal.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I agree with that.Quote:
One difference being that unlike federal income taxes, you can't go into a store broke and leave with money due to "credits". This is another failing of our current tax system, where part of it is in fact assistance/welfare/etc rather than a taxation system.
How could you ever administer a ceiling, based on need or age, with a VAT or sales tax? It would be nearly impossible. And the burden placed on businesses to track and report such a tax would be immense. Along with all the other government imposed tasks they have to do now.Quote:
We also have age and income limits locally, where older and less financially secure individuals hit a tax "ceiling" that freezes their property tax and prevents them from being hit by housing value fluctuations and the like.
I agree with the fast food, but many people rely on things they don't need. A person can pack a frozen meal, sandwich, etc in minutes. My wife makes lunch for my daughter daily (she hates school food) and she gets a great lunch for a couple bucks.
The ceiling on housing taxes was an example of how it can work. If people are buying luxuries later in life they can pay the tax, as it wasn't taxed when they made and saved that money. I might also add that since this taxes based on consumption, it encourages people to live within their means and make purchases appropriately.
As for collections and filing, these days most of it is automated. We already have differing levels here and it really wasn't a big deal. You set up the tax level when you enter an item into the system. Those businesses are already filing monthly, so the increase in paperwork really doesn't exist.
Perhaps I misunderstood. We were talking consumption taxes, like VAT or sales tax. I assumed you were suggesting a variable tax of that type. You'd have to issue and police special IDs for need or age based exemptions from those in order to accomplish it. Businesses would bear the burden of tracking and reporting taxes and policing fraud.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
You can also make fresh meals, quickly and cheaply if you know how. Jamie Oliver also did a series on quick healthy meals in minutes which was brilliant. Everyone has 10 minutes to make a fresh meal, 10 minutes is not a long time out of 1440 minutes in a day, and it's better for you. I laugh at people who say they are too busy to make food. They are never too busy to do everything else :crazy:Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I love my cooking, but I have to say its rare to find a complete Jamie Oliver meal that works both cheaply or in the time he claims it takes to make. I watched Jamie's 15 minute meals yesterday and although he has many of the ingredients sitting around his kitchen, most people don't. I logged into Asda online and checked to see how much one of these meals cost and it came to 16 quid! That's half of my weekly shopping budget for one meal. It's amazing how much dried mushrooms, lemon grass, saffron and pink ginger cost when he thinks its a simple meal lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
I do like his cooking though and tend to pull tips out of his recipes rather than follow them to the book.