Homophobia

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

That we appear to be the only species who have sex recreationally, because it is pleasurable. Perhaps, as beings able to rationalise and with our intelligence, we could not be relied upon to reproduce were there not an incentive....

Animals reproduce instictively, and yet population of animals appears to be naturally controlled.

It is only the 'superior' species - i.e. us, that seem unable to control ourselves.

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But this has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with attitudes towards sexuality. Neither, to my mind, does it reinforce any notions of the primary purpose of humans being to reproduce. I object to the notion that one should be expected to fulfill any alleged purpose that one doesn't choose oneself.

Not much of a thing to say to one's kids, is it? 'Why did you have us?' 'To fulfill what some consider to be a societal norm.'

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

No, I don't understand this, because it again implies some sort of difference between gay and straight people that doesn't exist. I don't consider that I have more or less in common with anyone as a direct result of my sexuality.

Again, my experience of reality is completely different. My life has been no harder, nor easier, as a result of being gay.

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I appreciate you're trying to be positive, but generalising your experiences to everyone is unfair. And think of small things that has made your life harder - coming out, telling your parents, working out if the person you fancy is also gay etc. Not to mention the abuse many homosexuals recieve in certain countries, including the fact that homosexuality is a crime in many countries still. So for many homosexuals life is harder.

And of course there is a difference. I as a straight man will never need to consider things like will I be allowed to marry in my country, or have a child, or even be able to admit my sexuality. Being straight means every door is open to you. Being gay means that these sort of things are potential issues. This may be unfair, but it's just true.

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Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

I appreciate you're trying to be positive, but generalising your experiences to everyone is unfair. And think of small things that has made your life harder - coming out, telling your parents, working out if the person you fancy is also gay etc. Not to mention the abuse many homosexuals recieve in certain countries, including the fact that homosexuality is a crime in many countries still. So for many homosexuals life is harder.

And of course there is a difference. I as a straight man will never need to consider things like will I be allowed to marry in my country, or have a child, or even be able to admit my sexuality. Being straight means every door is open to you. Being gay means that these sort of things are potential issues. This may be unfair, but it's just true.

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Yes, good points all. However, I can still say with utter certainty that in no way, other than in those matters directly relevant to my sexuality, does my sexuality influence the extent to which I have anything in common, or not, with anyone else. The point I'm making is that it's easy for some who aren't gay to assume a greater difference between gay and straight people than generally exists.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, good points all. However, I can still say with utter certainty that in no way, other than in those matters directly relevant to my sexuality, does my sexuality influence the extent to which I have anything in common, or not, with anyone else. The point I'm making is that it's easy for some who aren't gay to assume a greater difference between gay and straight people than generally exists.

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Yeh that's a fair point - in no way would I ever suggest you're a different person because of your sexuality, but when it comes to these sort of delicate topics which are hard enough if you're straight I can only imagine how hard it would be as a homosexual! However I believe these views of 'difference' between gay and straight people are forced through by media - people on British TV who are gay are all exceedingly camp and annoying, strengthening an incorrect stereotype which does nothing for society's acceptance of gays!

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Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

However I believe these views of 'difference' between gay and straight people are forced through by media - people on British TV who are gay are all exceedingly camp and annoying, strengthening an incorrect stereotype which does nothing for society's acceptance of gays!

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Except Stephen Fry, of course. ;)

But here's another question: why does camp annoy us? It does annoy me as well, I have to admit.

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Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

I believe these views of 'difference' between gay and straight people are forced through by media - people on British TV who are gay are all exceedingly camp and annoying, strengthening an incorrect stereotype which does nothing for society's acceptance of gays!

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I was in complete agreement with your remarks until that one. 'All' gay people on British TV are exceedingly camp and annoying? Literally all?

Also, if that's how they want to be, so be it. Again, lack of acceptance is not their problem; rather, it's that of the people not doing the accepting. They are the ones who can't see past the stereotype.

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Originally Posted by EuroTroll

But here's another question: why does camp annoy us? It does annoy me as well, I have to admit.

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And me as a gay man, for that matter. But how do you expect your question to be answered? Lots of things annoy people. I can't bear the sort of macho aggression that characterises a certain type of straight bloke, for example.

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Originally Posted by EuroTroll

Except Stephen Fry, of course. ;)

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Who now annoys me by being omni-present on the TV — it used to be a treat to see him, but no longer, because he's everywhere and I'm a bit sick of him. But I digress.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

And me as a gay man, for that matter. But how do you expect your question to be answered? Lots of things annoy people. I can't bear the sort of macho aggression that characterises a certain type of straight bloke, for example.

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Well, there's always a reason why something annoys us, even if we're not aware of it. I'm not aware of the reason why camp annoys me. I thought perhaps someone else is, and can possibly introduce me to the psychological mechanism that might be at work, in him and me both.

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Originally Posted by EuroTroll

Well, there's always a reason why something annoys us, even if we're not aware of it. I'm not aware of the reason why camp annoys me. I thought perhaps someone else is, and can possibly introduce me to the psychological mechanism that might be at work, in him and me both.

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You may as well ask this of anything, not just 'camp'. It's akin to me saying I don't like the taste of coffee — I can't explain it any further than that.