4 degrees of camber

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

That's his prerogative you know.....

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On the contrary, and despite what your post suggests, I quite like RBR as a team. I am a great admirer of Adrian Newey’s in particular. My whole point in this thread from the start has been to call how silly it was of RBR to go beyond Pirelli’s recommended camber angle. I think we can all agree, maybe with the exception of Daniel, that this was a risky decision that could have ended in either of or both their drivers being harmed. This is my point. RBR pushed the limitations. Pirelli gave the recommendation with good cause and RBR in good conscience should have adhered to that.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Should we tolerate this though? It's no better than the people who see that Lewis has one sideburn longer in a press conference than the other and who criticise him for it and would happily have him banned for it.

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Not potentially harmful to his health though, is it?

Do you suppose Newey was being blase with his concern for the tyres durability, or a real concern?

If it's a real concern, you'd summise that they were indeed, sailing more than just a little too close to the wind methinks.

Anyway, we get that you disagree with The Black Knight.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

It's like talking to a brick wall! :rolleyes:

The fact that McLaren's tyres were also blistering is not irrelevant.

Neither you nor anyone on here actually knows how close the tyres were to failing, you come on here with emotive language in place of facts and knowledge just so you can have a dig at one team. I could say that they were absolutely fine and there was no chance of failure and you could say that if they'd done another lap both drivers would be dead and both of us would be wrong because we simply do not know. Those are the FACTS.

At the end of the day this is racing and it's part of the allure. I bet you anything if it were McLaren who had run more than the recommended camber and got away with it then you'd be congratulating them on their master stroke :rolleyes:

RBR won, deal with it.

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No Daniel I wouldn't. Please stop applying your limited view of the world to me. I will never advocate a team that goes beyond safety limits and puts their drivers lives at risks. The only relevant piece we need to know here is that RBR took a risk and ignored Pirelli's advice which it can only be said was given on safety grounds. NO team should ever ignore safety advice from any party with which they are involved. If RBR were to do it and they were confident that their tyres would last i.e. they had data to support it then I wouldn't have an issue with it. Clearly they shot in the dark, realised they may have made a mistake, pissed their pants and were in all probability very lucky to get away with what they did. Safety should never be ignored.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

On the contrary, and despite what your post suggests, I quite like RBR as a team. I am a great admirer of Adrian Newey’s in particular. My whole point in this thread from the start has been to call how silly it was of RBR to go beyond Pirelli’s recommended camber angle. I think we can all agree, maybe with the exception of Daniel, that this was a risky decision that could have ended in either of or both their drivers being harmed. This is my point. RBR pushed the limitations. Pirelli gave the recommendation with good cause and RBR in good conscience should have adhered to that.

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Thing is, Pirelli is in F1 to look good, having your tyres blister is not necessarily going to make you look good. A blistering tyre though doesn't necessarily indicate a tyre that is in imminent danger of failure. Neither you nor I ACTUALLY know whether there was a danger of a failure or not. We do not know. We don't know!!!!!!

Daniel is correct that we do not know just how marginal the tyres were or if they would fail. However, RBR and to a lesser degree McLaren were pretty concerned.

TBK is correct that setting the cars up with excessive camber was pretty stupid. It came off on this occasions but if there had of been a failure, would have been in deep crap.

But, there is no need to start attacking the poster Dan so possibly best to leave it there.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

No Daniel I wouldn't. Please stop applying your limited view of the world to me. I will never advocate a team that goes beyond safety limits and puts their drivers lives at risks. The only relevant piece we need to know here is that RBR took a risk and ignored Pirelli's advice which it can only be said was given on safety grounds. NO team should ever ignore safety advice from any party with which they are involved. If RBR were to do it and they were confident that their tyres would last i.e. they had data to support it then I wouldn't have an issue with it. Clearly they shot in the dark, realised they may have made a mistake, pissed their pants and were in all probability very lucky to get away with what they did. Safety should never be ignored.

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:laugh:

AS I keep on saying, we don't actually know how close the tyres were to going pop, we don't know if the 4 degree recommendation (note: RECOMMENDATION) is there to stop tyres blistering or wearing quickly which won't look good for Pirelli, or whether there is a genuine risk of the tyres going boom. To say " ignored Pirelli's advice which it can only be said was given on safety grounds" is not necessarily true, like I say, it could be safety or it could be just there to make the tyres last longer and make Pirelly look better. We don't know one way or the other.

Do you honestly think that when that first set of tyres came of Seb's car that Adrian and Pirelli weren't looking at them to see whether there had been damage done to the carcass or not? Do you think they went through the whole race genuinely not knowing? I somehow doubt that this is the case.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

we don't know if the 4 degree recommendation (note: RECOMMENDATION) is there to stop tyres blistering.

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Not to stop the blistering, clearly, because Ferrari for example, who we know are easy on their tyres, and were running only 3 degrees camber, still blistered the shoulder.

To me, this showed the extent of Pirelli's concern, and justifies their uneasyness in respect of Red Bulls camber angle.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

when that first set of tyres came of Seb's car that Adrian and Pirelli weren't looking at them to see whether there had been damage done to the carcass

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You won't know that until Pirelli gets the tyre off the rim, and inspects the internal surface of the tyre.........

I'd imagine tyres already run in such a manner from qualifying 1 and 2 were subsequently inspected thus, and a reasoned level of concern was then raised by Pirelli.......

I very much doubt Pirelli licked a finger and stuck it in the air to draw their safety concerns.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Daniel is correct that we do not know just how marginal the tyres were or if they would fail. However, RBR and to a lesser degree McLaren were pretty concerned.

TBK is correct that setting the cars up with excessive camber was pretty stupid. It came off on this occasions but if there had of been a failure, would have been in deep crap.

But, there is no need to start attacking the poster Dan so possibly best to leave it there.

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I COMPLETELY agree with you there. What I dislike (and what I was attacking) is people presenting supposition as fact. It's entirely possible that the tyres were very much marginal or that they could have gone another 10 laps. Without knowing either way I think it's extremely silly to attempt to present either view as being definite and therefore making statements to the effect of one team risking the lives of their drivers. I love to deal with facts, they're great and you can actually prove things one way or another with them, speculation is fine a well, but you have to realise that it's only speculation and you can never say for sure.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

You won't know that until Pirelli gets the tyre off the rim, and inspects the internal surface of the tyre.........

I'd imagine tyres already run in such a manner from qualifying 1 and 2 were subsequently inspected thus, and a reasoned level of concern was then raised by Pirelli.......

I very much doubt Pirelli licked a finger and stuck it in the air to draw their safety concerns.

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Of course, it may be that Pirelli was right on the money and RBR were dicing with death, or Pirelli may have been conservative and RBR were running the tyre within safe parameters.