Independence

Could you imagine people rioting in London if Scotland declared independance? :s

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

I disagree. Things happen not because superpower X or influential person Y wanted it so, but because a combination of objective reasons dictated it. You may gain a bit more if you are lucky and you may lose a bit more if you are not, but most likely you won't be able to turn tides arbitrarily. Of course, some changes in Romanian borders were caused by diplomatic games of great powers but the overall extent of Romanian sovereignty boils down as much to domestic factors as to external ones.

We can also argue, that Kosovo independence is the product of U.S. foreign policy seeking to establish another satellite in the Balkans, but we should admit that Kosovars played their cards bloody well ever after WWII despite having been on the wrong side.

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I don't need to argue, I'm too stubborn in my belief and I don't mind if somebody think different, we don't have same life experiences. Don't know the peculiar case of your country but in ours at the end of the WW II communists were so many they could have their congress in an elevator. So no matter how hard I try I can't see the "objective reasons " that dictated the horrible 50 years of communism. I can see only 3 guys meeting in Yalta and playing a bit with Europe's map. Then I was forced to take part at meetings of thousands of people in the honour of the dictator. I thought " what if a guy will shout something against him or take a gun and shoot him ? ". But the scowled faces of the guys infiltrated among us calmed me down. However the thing became reality, but before we had to have the Malta agreement. And the dream of my life became true through a production made in Hollywood with the script written in Moscow.

No matter what cards played Kosovo after WWII, if USA didn't want it ,the independence would never haver happened. And they didn't want it because kosovars are right ( no offence, but how many americans know about Kosovo ? ) but because they wanted another spur in Serbia's coast ( that is to say Russia ).
In the 80's they tried a similar thing in Afghanistan by helping the mudjahedins. After 10 years they harvested the fruits in the person of Bin Laden. Let's hope this time they'll be more lucky.

I was pleased to see Emir Kusturica at last night's meeting. Although to my knowledge he'a a muslim bosniac.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Could you imagine people rioting in London if Scotland declared independance? :s

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Depends if people there feel they have ownership over the land I guess.

Personally I think the overiding reason for this going through so easily was Serbia's dealings in ethnic cleansing in Croatia and Bosnia. What better for a reason for a minority to ask for independance than as protection from a country which has a track record of ethnic cleansing.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the one definite upshot of this whole deal. Yet another eastern European country which will soon be able to compete in Eurovision! Isn't that the best? :uhoh:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Yet another eastern European country which will soon be able to compete in Eurovision! Isn't that the best? :uhoh:

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I can see their votes:
Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Russia, Romania : O points and lots of boo -s.
Uk: 1 point ( they were our friends but the song was awful as usually )
Slovenia: 2 points
Croatia: 3 points
Bosnia:4 points ( they got muslim guys )
Serbia:5 points ( don't deserve them but the guys from Mitrovica still has the right to vote )
Bulgaria:6 points ( nice guys; pretented to don't recognize our state but finally changed their minds)
France:7 points
Turkey: 8 points
Macedonia:10 points.
And finally, our 12 points go to....our brothers from Albania!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Mark

Could you imagine people rioting in London if Scotland declared independance? :s

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We might know it when it happens.

Back to what happens in Serbia.
Are the Americans and some of the Europeans happy with bringing violence back to the country?!
How on Earth did they think that this might unfold in a different way?

I just read that Russia considers using military force in case NATO and EU countries decide to ignore the previously taken UNO decisions.
This is shaping up like a nightmare.

It seems strange to me that independence is allowed for Kosovo, given the fact that once again instability would be brought to the region, yet the Kurds aren't allowed their own homeland.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

Yet again, double standards shown by the west. Wasn't one of the reasons given by the coallition of the willing (gullible) for the illegial invasion of Iraq was to protect Kurds in the north of the country that had been mistreated during Saddam's rule?

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Originally Posted by Camelopard

It seems strange to me that independence is allowed for Kosovo, even given the fact that once again instability would be brought to the region, yet the Kurds aren't allowed their own homeland.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

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Let's just say that someone (we all know who we are talking about) has an interest to create instability in the Balkans. What I don't understand in EU position in accepting this instability.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Back to what happens in Serbia.
Are the Americans and some of the Europeans happy with bringing violence back to the country?!
How on Earth did they think that this might unfold in a different way?

I just read that Russia considers using military force in case NATO and EU countries decide to ignore the previously taken UNO decisions.
This is shaping up like a nightmare.

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The only conclusion I can come from reading your post is that it's a pity that Russia didn't get kicked more while it was down. Russia is a pain in the arse and they're concerned with no one else but themselves. At least with the US they can sometimes claim they've done some of their things for the good of the world or for people other than themselves. Vladimir is an evil little prick and we all know it. If it wasn't for gas Russia would be a shadow of it's former self and the world as a whole would be better off (perhaps not in an energy sense though). The sooner renewable energy takes off the sooner Russia can sod off and play in their own icy sandbox with themselves.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Russia is a pain in the arse and they're concerned with no one else but themselves. At least with the US they can sometimes claim they've done some of their things for the good of the world or for people other than themselves.

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I thought the same when I was a kid
Now I come to the oldies words: either one or another, the same devil. . :laugh: