What Happens Next?

What you offered is an opinion.There are no facts to point to"pulling the plug".

please provide proof of blank sidpods in 2007, I do not recall any.

The events had good sponsorship.Name a series that hasn't lost a sponsor.Even Nascar can't find a sponsor for their secondary series.

Name one series that hasn't changed their schedule.

none of these things are life-threatening or can't be overcome. But I will hold you to your prediction and promise I will come back and face the results, which will be to my advantage, IMO.

Rumor, CC to Brands Hatch and the Nurburgring in 2008.

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Originally Posted by tbyars

sanguin, NOTHING depends on the demise of CCWS. Except for CCWS.

Just like in the last days of CART, the demise of CCWS will be their own undoing as a result of poor managment...

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I’m not sure it’s that simple. It appears Mazda jumped in at the last minute to save the MC race just like they did in Portland, and Mazda Mexico is partially sponsoring Mario’s car for the race.

Until I see signs that Mazda’s withdrawing their support for CC, I’ll have a hard time thinking the end is near. Without knowing Zoom Zoom’s plans or intentions I think it’s impossible to make any clear predictions as to CC’s fate. Mazda could end it all or keep it going - and at least for now - they seem to keep it going.
-John

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Originally Posted by sanguin

What you offered is an opinion.

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No. several of the items I offered were facts. You just chose to hide behind "IMO" to ignore them.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

There are no facts to point to"pulling the plug".

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And I CLEARLY stated it as such, and gave the basis for my opinion, rather than just stating it was my opinion with absolutely NO support, as you do.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

please provide proof of blank sidpods in 2007, I do not recall any.

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You recall wrong.

Look at the photos from the last CC event on the MotorSports Forum. Look at the very first picture. What sponsor is on the sidepod of Kat's car?

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Originally Posted by sanguin

The events had good sponsorship.

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Who was the event sponsor for Vegas? What was the given reson for Phoenix not happening? What ws the given reason for things falling apart in China?

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Name a series that hasn't lost a sponsor.Even Nascar can't find a sponsor for their secondary series.

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We're not talking about other series. We are talking about CCWS.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Name one series that hasn't changed their schedule.

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The IRL ran EXACTLY the schedule in 2007 that was released last year. NASCAR (NNC and Busch) ran EXACTLY the schedule in 2007 that was released last year. I believe ALMS and Grand Am ran EXACTLY the same schedule that was released for 2007. I believe NHRA ran EXACTLY the schedule that was released.

Name one other series that cancelled three races from its announced schedule from 2007.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

none of these things are life-threatening or can't be overcome.

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Agreed. But they won't fix themselves. Name ONE THING CCWS, as a series, has done to address any of these issues in the past 90 days. When do you believe the CCWS schedule will make an appearance? When do you think Mexico City tickets will go on sale? "Don't wait for the translation;" answer the question. You won''t, though. You just ignore things like this.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

But I will hold you to your prediction and promise I will come back and face the results, which will be to my advantage, IMO.

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And that is fine. I have been wrong before, and am still here, 1,500 posts and 5 years later because I faced up to being wrong.

I'm not the question here. You are the question. Will you hold the same standard, or will you run away if and when you are proven to be wrong?

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Rumor, CC to Brands Hatch and the Nurburgring in 2008.

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Rumor, CC will become a series that races llamas in the far east in 2008.

It has just as much credibility.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

please provide proof of blank sidpods in 2007, I do not recall any.

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Do you recall this one?

http://www.deepthrottle.com/Photo/ro...photo_22.shtml

Jeff

Compared to other years gone by, I think the series sidepods have looked very good this year!!!

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Originally Posted by jimispeed

Compared to other years gone by, I think the series sidepods have looked very good this year!!!

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Yes, Jimspeed, the sidepods did look better this year compared to the past three seasons but next year is not looking very promising now that Lexington Energy, Hustler and AVN are out of the picture. More on that later.

On the plus side, kudos should go to the folks at Mazda if they did in fact step up to help out Mario Dominquez and save the Mexico City race at the last minute. My frustration with the series owners and management does not extend to the promoters, manufacturer, sponsors and the drivers nor do I want Champ Car's fans in Mexico to be let down. That said, the Mazda people must be tired of getting ChampCar's 911 calls. Regardless, muchas gracias Mazda for all you do.

The time has now come for “Chaim's Dozen What Happens Next" predictions. I will eat digital (Kosher) crow personally served by Sanguin if I am wrong on more than half of these. Looking into my crystal ball (shaped exactly like Paulie G-String's shiny head) I see that the following will occur in Champ Car in 2008:

1) CDW will be gone and instead be in ALMS but certain people will pretend this is only a flesh wound.

2) Medi | Zone will have followed CDW out the door but will not appear in another series. Some here will claim that they will still be in the series until reality sets in at the first race in Long Beach.

3) Red Bull -- They won’t be back as a Champ Car team sponsor but their logos will still remain on a few driver’s helmets. Certain people wearing rose colored glasses will point to this as proof that Red Bull is committed to Champ Car’s Three Day Festivals of Speed format.

4) The Las Vegas race will not happen in 2008 but certain folks will attend anyhow and rave about what a rockin' event it was and how much larger the crowd was than the IRL opener in Homestead.

5) China will be stillborn in 2008… and 2009… and 2010. Everyone, including Chairman Bill France Jr. and Chairman Mao himself will be named as co-conspirators in killing the race by the people who frequent CCF.

6) Tags will sue Paulie G-String for monies owed and nobody will be surprised when the story breaks in AVN followed by a spread in Hustler.

7) One major Champ Car team will leave for another series after 2007. (Then others will wonder what kind of deal that team got and a certain phone in Speedway, Indiana will start ringing. The Champ Car team owners who call will all change their minds about leaving the series after listening to “I am Indy” while on hold.)

8) Steve Johnson will leave Champ Car after the season and be blamed for everything regardless of where the real blame lies. Garrett Mudd and John Claget will last exactly 1.72 seconds longer than Johnson. Tony Cotman will be elevated to the position of "President For A Day" and after that one day passes he will move on to the IRL as Brain Barnhart's No. 2 where he will be given the tough jobs of making sure Manica finally wins a race and Dilka Muno experiences the joy of full throttle at least once in her life.

9) There will only be 4 races in the USA, 2 in Europe, 3 in Canada, 1 in Australia in 2008 (if there is a 2008 season). This will come after Champ Car boldly leaks a tentative schedule showing 6 races in the USA, 4 in Europe, 3 in Canada, 1 in Australia and 1 in Mexico.

10) There will be a special media talk with the four OWRS owners and the two media people left who cover the series. The Amigos will again proclaim all is well and Kevin Kalkhoven will promise that 2009 will be the breakout season. These two reporters will be pleased because they like traveling on Kevin’s G5 and they have already written the story (in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007). All they will need to do is change the dates and swap the events that were cancelled this year for the events that will be cancelled in 2008.

11) in an effort to mainstream the sport, a Champ Car driver will be one of the contestants on "Prancing With The Cars", (a new "espn 8" reality show). The format will involve running across the racetrack during a race. Twenty-two past and present Champ Car drivers plus the entire Atlantic grid will apply for the one open spot on the show. All will figure that they have a better chance of getting paid or getting famous by being on this show than they do racing in the Champ Car World Series in 2008. They will all know that there will only be 12 cars in most of the races so the chances of getting hit by one of them will be about as slim as the chances of getting paid by Paulie G-String.

12) Sherwin Williams will not cover the earth with Champ Car in 2008. Instead the earth will cover Champ Car and Sherwin Williams will be used to gloss over the sad truth of why this happend.

What do you predict?

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Originally Posted by jimispeed

Compared to other years gone by, I think the series sidepods have looked very good this year!!!

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I agree

nothing will happen- CCWS will limp on for another year and they'll promise that everything will be better next year....pull the plug guys- for the sake of OWR in the USA- there's nothing to suggest that 2008 will be any better than this year

and with it's new schedule the IRL has morphed into what CART was in terms of diversity of tracks etc

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Originally Posted by djparky

nothing will happen- CCWS will limp on for another year and they'll promise that everything will be better next year....pull the plug guys- for the sake of OWR in the USA- there's nothing to suggest that 2008 will be any better than this year

and with it's new schedule the IRL has morphed into what CART was in terms of diversity of tracks etc

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Well, djparky, that sadly sums it up. Read it and weep mi Amigos.

On the negative side, I have heard from very good sources that CDW has said "no" to sponsoring Newman/Haas/Lanigan in 2008 and that Medi | Zone will most certainly not return either next year (as predicted). The latter fact has been known for some time. These two factors could be important in determining what happens next for Champ Car's most famous team.

Finally, on the plus side, I have heard that chances are good that a personal connection of the Figge family may land a Mexican beer sponsor for the team for 2008, thus the Mario Dominguez deal. This of course depends on the Mexican beer company being convinced that there will be a 2008 Champ Car season.

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

Well, djparky, that sadly sums it up. Read it and weep mi Amigos.

On the negative side, I have heard from very good sources that CDW has said "no" to sponsoring Newman/Haas/Lanigan in 2008 and that Medi | Zone will most certainly not return either next year (as predicted). The latter fact has been known for some time. These two factors could be important in determining what happens next for Champ Car's most famous team.

Finally, on the plus side, I have heard that chances are good that a personal connection of the Figge family may land a Mexican beer sponsor for the team for 2008, thus the Mario Dominguez deal. This of course depends on the Mexican beer company being convinced that there will be a 2008 Champ Car season.

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Going a step further, i am also hearing that proof of financial solvency and ability to perform are being required from all directions and that there is pushback from the Amigos as it actually demands a performance guaranteee which would cost a fortune if they cancelled a race or didn't have enough cars on the grid. This presents a stalemate as the team clearly don't have sponsorship locked down for next season...IMO, it's this stalemate that will give the greatest chance of a cancelled season...though i agree that NHL are likely to be gone, making this scenario near impossible to resolve easily...time will tell.

I'm hearing that a conserted effort is being made to try to project the issue of CC's demise. That the scenario is that contracts are on the line and merger is being forced unless another series can convince others that CC will fail.

This has a long way to go as its being fought on the internet with no real proof, just rumor mongering by so-called insiders. Just like every year, when these predictions come out, wrong again.

sorry.

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Originally Posted by djparky

and with it's new schedule the IRL has morphed into what CART was in terms of diversity of tracks etc

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Nope ,its not CART. It doesn't have LB, Toronto, Cleveland, RA, LS,Surfers, Mexico City, etc.

their schedule is uninspired.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

I'm hearing that a conserted effort is being made to try to project the issue of CC's demise. That the scenario is that contracts are on the line and merger is being forced unless another series can convince others that CC will fail.

This has a long way to go as its being fought on the internet with no real proof, just rumor mongering by so-called insiders. Just like every year, when these predictions come out, wrong again.

sorry.

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Sanguin, happy one month anniversary of your first post here - I have enjoyed all 312! So, I am sure you are listening to same people who said Honda would leave the IRL in 2005, then in 2006, then in 2007, then in 2008. I am also pretty sure that the dark forces that you imply are involved in spreading these supposedly unfounded rumors of Champ Car's impending implosion had nothing to do with all the countless screw-ups, setbacks, disasters and cancellations in the series during the past year. Most sane people can now see for themselves that things are not getting better. Instead they are getting much worse and those who deny this reality are looking more bizarre and delusional by the day. As for rumors, okay, some of what I posted here are just rumors for now... but not for long. Does all this bad news make me happy? No, it confirms my fear that Champ Car is not viable without the significant and perpetual financial support of the OWRS owners. Given what I have seen this year, I just can't see that happening forever. In the meantime, A1GP, GP2, ALMS, IRL, Grand-Am, etc. will move ahead professionally while our once proud series continues to stumble and fall like a drunken has-been in the back alleys of motorsports irrelevance. That just makes me sick. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Nope ,its not CART. It doesn't have LB, Toronto, Cleveland, RA, LS,Surfers, Mexico City, etc.

their schedule is uninspired.

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As much as some of us hate the following, the Indy Car Series does have Indy, St. Pete, Milwaukee, Watkins Glen, Mid-Ohio, Belle Isle, a rights fee from ABC/ESPN, Penske, Target/Ganassi, Rahal/Letterman, Andretti/Green, Honda, Firestone, numerous sponsors, a ratings pulse and 15 US races.

Their schedule may be uninspired but ito many it now looks more like the CART of the early 1990s than ChampCar does now. At least the IRL has a schedule and they stick to it. Call that uninspired if you will, but I prefer that to the supposedly inspired schedule making that has been going on in Champ Car since the Amigos took over. How many venues has the Champ Car abandoned in the past four seasons and how many races have failed to come off once announced? It looks like next season promises more of the same chaos. To me, that is bad news.

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

So, I am sure you are listening to same people who said Honda would leave the IRL in 2005, then in 2006, then in 2007, then in 2008.

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IMO honda will there in 2008, after that, nascar?

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

(snip) and that Medi | Zone will most certainly not return either next year (as predicted). The latter fact has been known for some time.

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What makes you think they were there, this year? Let's face facts. Has anyone ever heard of Medi Zone? Do they sound like a company that could free up enough capital to sponsor a top running CC operation, for a whole season. Medi Zone was something to put on the side of the car, after the "technology based" sponsor (rumored to have been Google) fell through. If you think it was any more money than enough to run Las Vegas & Long Beach, you're wearing the same rose colored glasses as sanguin. And no, sanguin, I don't have a link. As they say, this is my own opinion.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by sanguin

IMO honda will there in 2008, after that, nascar?

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We will see about Honda but from what I am hearing, Sanguin won't like the answer for 2009 and beyond. If no announcement is forthcoming either way, at least he/she and the other blind faithful will still be able to speculate that Honda will be gone to NASCAR or elsewhere at some undefined point in the near or distant future, by which time (if or when) losing Honda probably won't still represent the shimmering ($2000-bottle-of-wine-induced) mirage of salvation it once did to the OWRS owners. Champ Car will likely be in even worse shape by then (if it still exists) than it is now. Hanging on to the hope of the IRL's collapse seems to be what got us all to this point so I no longer put any faith in that line of thinking. More importanly, and back on topic, the trend for Champ Car is not encouraging and it is plain for all to see, but only if they chose truth over fiction.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Nope ,its not CART. It doesn't have LB, Toronto, Cleveland, RA, LS,Surfers, Mexico City, etc.

their schedule is uninspired.

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Well, thats your opinion, Indy holds more tradition than all of thoses races combined. In any case, for all of the IRL's "lack of inspiration" in their schedule, at least they don't cancel races at breakneck speed like some open wheel series do these days. Do you need a link????

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Nope ,its not CART. It doesn't have LB, Toronto, Cleveland, RA, LS,Surfers, Mexico City, etc.

their schedule is uninspired.

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No it's not CART (sadly) however- San Jose, Vegas, Houston are pretty dismal to me

add LB, RA, Cleveland, Surfers and Toronto to the IRL and lop off a couple of ovals and you have a great calendar

anyway it's probably ony a matter of time before the egos running CCWS have had enough the aggravation that they get and pull the plug on it, hopefully that day will be sooner rather than later (before I get ripped apart I was a CART loyalist in the 1996-2002 era)

Vegas dismal? Obviously, you were NOT there. I hope and pray, GB at RA is smart enough to never let the .irl spoil RA.

We shall see, who is closer to the truth.

Steve Johnson will be providing us all with details of the Champ Car 2008 schedule within the next two weeks. I can't wait to see it.

Personally, I happen to think that the schedule will not appear until after Mexico City in November, or even later.

What a complete and utter shambles Champ Car is right now.

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

Steve Johnson will be providing us all with details of the Champ Car 2008 schedule within the next two weeks. I can't wait to see it.

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And this will tell us what about where CCWS will be racing in 2008?

I do get the impression that Champ Car and the OWRS owners are grasping at anything that will make them look like the have some sort of a future now that things look as chaotic as a flatulent evening with Britney Spears. Some of this takes the form of announcements we are now seeing aimed at the pressing need to replenish the endless string of short term, one-off and two-off event or driver-centered sponsorships. It seems that the Amigos need to try to maintain appearances to help convince whomever is actually paying for the proposed new European rounds that there will be a viable series in 2008. One would expect those individuals will do their homework and look into what is behind all the scrubbed events, sponsor departures and other bad news. That can't be good for Champ Car, but the language barrier may help them this time -- especially if the prospective promoters can't read English.

I agree with FlatChatRacer... the calendar won't be clear until much later in the year. When this is finally released, it will leave many wondering: "what the hell is this?". There will sputtering protestations of unfair treatment and seductive promises of this and that from the OWRS owners and ChampCar management just like in years past but now, not many people are left who will believe them. Unless they sign Michael Schumacher or a top Indy Car team jumps ship to Champ Car, not much can save our sport now that it has been taken hostage by blind ego and delusion.

Ask not for whom the gong tolls... It tolls for thee, mi Amigos.

Hello jjjanos,

The schedule with it's content and structure will tell us a lot about the direction of the series. You see, it could be quite short with only 10/11 solid races, with at least 9 in the USA/Canada, which will be a good thing in my opinion. This will show that CCWS is trying to consolidate and live within it's means and importantly reduce costs for the teams.

Conversely, if the schedule shows 14/15 races with half of them outside the USA/Canada and most of those with "To Be Confirmed", then it will be a bad sign. It will show that CCWS is still suffering delusions of grandeur and not concentrating on it's core market and roots.

At the moment the series needs to establish a firm foundation and repay the faith of it's teams with reduce costs. Whether Champ Car has 10 races or 15 races will not affect it's popularity one jot. In fact, more fly-away races with huge gaps will create a disconnect with anyone trying to follow the series.

I work in Investment Banking and therefore appreciate, value and understand the art of making money. I am also an accountant by training. Therefore, if I am in the shoes of the CCWS leaders, I reduce costs as much as possible. Fewer races, means less to pay for TV time buys and advertising/promotion.

If I was doing the schedule to create fiscal stability here is what it would look like....

1. Long Beach (USA)
2. Cleveland (USA)
3. Road America (USA)
4. Portland (USA)
5. Houston (USA)
6. Laguna Seca (USA)
7. Edmonton (Canada)
8. Toronto (Canada)
9. Mont TrentBlant (Canada)
10. Assen (Holland) - Justified by sanction fee
11. Surfers Paradise (Australia) - Justified by sanction fee

There is nothing wrong with this and when CCWS goes overseas, they are going to a destination that will pay lots of money. The core remains in it's heartland USA/Canada.

That is what I meant by saying, I can't wait to see it.

I hope that makes my thought a little clearer.

I agree that there is no nessecity to have say 15 races in the schedule. Even 10-12 will be allright. The schedule you have proposed is good, i would add a Zolder race next to Assen :) .

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Originally Posted by djparky

No it's not CART (sadly) however-add LB, RA, Cleveland, Surfers and Toronto to the IRL and lop off a couple of ovals and you have a great calendar

anyway it's probably ony a matter of time before the egos running CCWS have had enough the aggravation that they get and pull the plug on it, hopefully that day will be sooner rather than later (before I get ripped apart I was a CART loyalist in the 1996-2002 era)

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Why do they need any CC events? Why would the owners let another series have their best events? The other series is just going to have to make it on their own.Waiting for another series's demise is a fatal business plan.

This is why CC survives.

The truth is (maybe a sad truth) that it is better to have a united series with 18-20 events (and good drivers, mighty and good cars and so on and so on) and ....... Indy500 of course must be an event in the schedule ....., which means that the unification goes through ...... discontinuance of CCWS. There is of course a tiny possibility that IRL goes bad and TG eventually would like to join the CCWS, but i can't really see this possibility to be real.

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Originally Posted by fan-veteran

There is of course a tiny possibility that IRL goes bad and TG eventually would like to join the CCWS, but i can't really see this possibility to be real.

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I can, with the money he's spending on subsidies and Honda could be gone to nascar.

CC isn't dependent on those things.

IMO

Well ...., i can't see why Honda should leave IRL - they are the only supplier of engines there, and hence definitely have a very good advertising opportunities, and from the other hand - the cost of engine(s) is low (actually i can't see any development costs to that engine, it is simply manufactured). Honda to NACSAR - possible, but why should this be accompanied with withdrawal from IRL ? - the cost of NASCAR program again should not be very big.

You are maybe right that TG maybe has busy work to subsidy his own series. Maybe yes, maybe not.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

I can, with the money he's spending on subsidies and Honda could be gone to nascar.

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Um, this is the part where you would go "link please"...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Why do they need any CC events? Why would the owners let another series have their best events? The other series is just going to have to make it on their own.Waiting for another series's demise is a fatal business plan.

This is why CC survives.

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Sanguin, for once we agree! Waiting for another series demise is a fatal business plan. Champ Car 2007 has provided ample proof of this. Paulie G-String, The Kevester, Gerry and later Dan P. have now learned this truth the hard way after stepping into the quicksand called Champ Car upon the strident urging of those who promised a doomsday scenario that has never quite materialized for TG and the IRL. Why do I claim this? Well, I was told this face-to-face by several of the opportunistic OWRS "Billionaires" themselves a few years ago. If you work for them or are actually one of them you know this already.

So, yes, Champ Car "survives", but for how long is the question?

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Originally Posted by fan-veteran

- the cost of NASCAR program again should not be very big.

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Am I missing something here? If Honda goes to NASCAR, they will have to come up with a 6 litre V8, from scratch. You don't think design, tooling, & developement from nothing will not require much money? Interesting...

Jeff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

I can, with the money he's spending on subsidies and Honda could be gone to nascar.

CC isn't dependent on those things.

IMO

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Okay, how bad can the subsuidies be for the IRL? Five million? Ten Million? Fifteen Million? Twenty Million? More? I invite you to pick a number and justify it. Oh, while you are at it, also please do explain how those seventeen Champ Cars magically appear on the grid without significant purses or sponsorship. Perhaps there is another word in Billionairespeak for "subsuidies"?

Then, please also explain the terminal financial calamity that you (and the OWRS Brain Trust) think/hope will happen in the IRL if Honda leaves for NASCAR in 2010 or 2011. Oh, I forgot, "CC isn't dependent on those things". So, if losing Honda is such a disaster for the IRL, how then, is having no real manufacturer support of the Champ Car World Series viable?

No more blind faith propaganda: Please just give us some credible numbers. Oh, I forgot, Champ Car is just too dammed busy making a profit (while teaching all those wretched little handout seeking teams to fend for themselves) to answer any hard questions.

Something does not add up in Sanguin's assertions. From my persective, the IRL seems to have stable and significant reoccuring income streams while Champ Car has quite the opposite. We all my not like it but it is what it is.

I will add, that, based upon what I know, I think the chances of Honda going to NASCAR anytime soon are about as slim as Michael Schmacher driving a Champ Car in 2008.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Why do they need any CC events? Why would the owners let another series have their best events? The other series is just going to have to make it on their own.Waiting for another series's demise is a fatal business plan.

This is why CC survives.

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The IRL isn't planning their business on CCWS's demise to get ANY of them just to survive, but bet your bippie if CCWS did die, Tony George will be on the phone with parties in Toronto and Long Beach before the sun comes up to get a contract for those races. I would also be shocked if They didn't contact Surfers to partner it with Motegi. It was after all the Honda Indy for quite a while was it not?

If the series ceased to operate, I'm sure their contracts with the cities would require them to put on a race or forfeit the rights to do so. I'd bet money Honda would step to the plate in Toronto and Surfers immediately and would probably love to replace Toyota in Long Beach as well. Road America might take longer due to the small market, however that place is held in just as high esteem by the current IRL teams that raced there for 20 years as it is by the current CCWS teams. Europe??? Doubtful. 4 races makes 20. Just were they should be.

Honestly, how on earth can you expect these teams to operate from the midwest, in a series looking at possibly half of their races overseas on the budgets they have? A1GP is a bloodbath with fools writing huge checks, and the teams don't even own the equipment, the series does. Write the check for your franchise, show up with your drivers to race.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

I can, with the money he's spending on subsidies and Honda could be gone to nascar.

CC isn't dependent on those things.

IMO

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Just one more completely ridiculous and desparate post after another...how long do we have to endure such obtuse dribble?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaimWitz

I will add, that, based upon what I know, I think the chances of Honda going to NASCAR anytime soon are about as slim as Michael Schmacher driving a Champ Car in 2008.

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No crap? Schummi in a Champcar at the Nurgbring next year!!!! Yee Haaah. When do I book my tickets? ;) Well, I hear Ralphie might need a job next year. :rolleyes:

I agree. Honda is a much different animal than Toyota. Honda does just fine selling cars. Toyota is going NASCAR for one reason. To sell Rednecks Toyota Tundras and to convince middle America they are as American as "Apple pie and Chevrolet". They need no help what so ever selling Camrys and Corollas. Actually, at this point, they already may just be more American, but that's getting off topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

Snip

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My point was less deep and did not deserve the lengthy and well-thought out response. In short, regardless of what schedule they announce, based on their track record, it tells us nothing about where they will actually hold races.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sanguin

This is why CC survives.

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Wow... and here I thought it was because it, not only is a character from a George Romero film, but also because a wealthy man had some sort of harebrained scheme that throwing money down a hole and running a business in the manner of Alfred E. Nueman was a good idea.

It all makes sense to me... CCWS doesn't survive because someone is pumping cash into the series. It survives because it won't emulate a series that actually gets paid to be on TV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heelntoe

Just one more completely ridiculous and desparate post after another...how long do we have to endure such obtuse dribble?

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Forever. He's protected.

What happens?

Sooner or later KK and GF make a decision they have been putting off for ages, and one that's hard.

Option 1 - Go big on the series, and spend the cash to put it back where it should be. This hurts the bottom line a lot, but makes us happy, would likely help the sponsor situation.

Option 2 - Call it a day and close. This makes all of us mad, hurts their egos, and would likely result in death threats towards KK and GF from the CW lunatics and causes a pile of lawsuits.

More likely option? Option 2, sadly.

These guys don't get it. They really don't. They need to change the course, but they won't - I think partly because they got yes men like sanguin here telling them that they can ignore the ice cold reality of CC racing.