Yes, I know - I just think they're misguided in their thinking.....(and it wouldn't be the first time) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
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Yes, I know - I just think they're misguided in their thinking.....(and it wouldn't be the first time) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
Have to agree. Been to a lot of service parks and they are mostly sh*te.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd
Not amazing access for fans like you say unless you've got a pass. Just rubbernecking at stationary cars basically. Drivers appear for a few seconds and are gone. Not exactly an abundance of VIPs or anyone else interesting around.
Equally you've got Hyundai in there with trade stands and a few other bits. End of day interview. Not really not a lot to hold the attention though.
I was in service parks on WRC two times last year. And except I have meet there lot of old friends from other teams, as a spectator it was nothing superb. Always only standing too far away behind fence, big buildings of manufacturers made as representation of money and good only for VIP etc...
Before I begin, Happy New Year!!! May we have a great year of rallying both in the WRC & outside.
Just wanted to ask about the current point scoring system for this year. It stays the same since it was introduced back in 2010, not going to revert itself right?
Yes points will again be as per every year since 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
For Drivers and Manufacturers
first = 25, second = 18, third = 15, fourth = 12, fifth = 10,
sixth = 8, seventh = 6, eighth =4, ninth = 2, tenth = 1
For Drivers only - Power stage points as used in 2017
first = 5, second = 4, third = 3, fourth = 2, fifth = 1
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/ar...ngskilometern/
Tommi Makinen is having a serious case of brain diarrhea.
"The WRC calender is supposed to grow from 13 to 16 events [no sources, no mention of the space of time it is supposed to happen]. To lower the costs at the same time it is being discussed whether there will be no Sunday stages anymore and whether the stages should be shortened."
"'We should not exceed 250 km per event', Tommi Makinen says. This would drop the costs and make taking part in the evens easier."
"'We have to or three stages, then it takes forever until something happens again', says Makinen agreeing with Mahonen and Ciesla."
"Makinen goes on to say: 'The world rally cars of today are capable of doing 400 - 500 km. It would be better to do two short events before rebuilding the cars in an extensive fashion. For example, the Rallies in Mexico and Argentina could be combined.'"
So basically what Tommi wants is 250 km two day events. We have entered the discussion of sprint events at least by now.
I also don't get the argument of having to do less extensive rebuilding of the cars if you only have to do it every two events. What if a car meets a tree head on or rolls? I doubt any team would really do that anyway cause they might as well rebuild lots of things after every event to make sure to avoid failures.
I'd prefer to stay with 13 events and making them a bit longer again.
I am not into conspiracies but it sounds to me like someone's built a fragile car and wants to force the regulations in his direction instead of going back to the drawing board with his own car and people in FIA have a bias towards this certain somebody.
I think the Mäkinen interview was already discussed elsewhere. Think of it this way, if the rallies were shorter, would more teams join in? And conversely, would we go back to two teams with longer rallies? I also made a poll on twitter about this, 60% would prefer current situation, 30% would prefer more teams with the cost of shorter rallies https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/statu...87375106109441
How more rallies effects WRC2? with 7 out of 16 rallies in WRC2 - rivals may never face each other, situation sometimes happening now, if it will be 9 or 10 events, not 7 many privateers couldn't afford it, and WRC2 will be another WRC3 with no real championship left. I think best way would be with some iconic events permanent spot in calendar + "they own rules", like night stages, different rally stages km, different number of days, very long legs in Finland, and etc. what was already discussed before + some rotation events with rules, like now - ~350km of stages, 2 and half days, SSS required number and etc.
It could look like this:
Monte Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/(some Africa event)
TDC
Argentina/Chile
Portugal
Sardinia/Greece
Finland
Germany
Turkey/Poland
New Zealand
Catalonia/Croatia
Australia/Malaysia(other Asian country maybe)
Wales
Or something like that.
Okay I'm fan of 16 events maybe, but Ciesla's words about not having more tarmac's is stupid. So then there will be 12 gravel rallies, 2 mixed and one snow???
Maybe sample how could they manage it:
1. Monte-Carlo (Mixed Snow-Tarmac)
2. Sweden (Snow)
3. Mexico (Gravel)
4. Tour De Corse (Tarmac)
5. Argentina (Gravel)
6. Chile (Gravel)
7. Portugal (Gravel)
8. San Remo (Tarmac)
9. Acropolis (Gravel)
10. Finland (Gravel)
11. Deutchland (Tarmac)
12. Wales (Gravel)
13. Japan (Tarmac)
14. Catalunya (Mixed Gravel-Tarmac)
15. Australia (Gravel)
16. Croatia (Tarmac)
Didn't he say 'no more tarmac in Europe' as opposed to no more tarmac at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by ESTR
Yes I think some people are knee-jerking; he specifically said there are enough tarmac events in Europe not that he doesn't want to add any tarmac events. Also, I think he's right about pushing too much for "classic" events, the calendar should be balanced with new and old events but most importantly it should have good events. No point in going back to san remo (just giving a random example) if you have to cancel half the stages because spectators are out of control.
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...twoday-rallies
Ciesla considers shortening the events to two days and then adding 3 events to the calendar.
It's hard for me to see how removing one day from the existing events would cut the expenses enough to allow adding new events. The logistics must be the biggest expense in the events and that won't become any cheaper if there's more events.
Agreed I don't think those sums will add up in the eyes of the teams.
Let's see what happens. It's funny to me how vital this Chinese event was that has now sunk without trace. It was on tarmac too so could have been a nice solution.
Well if he don't want tarmac in Europe they are on good way to add more outside.. Really.. Chile? That made me laugh.. Some time ago Abu Dhabi, Canada, Chile, Croatia, India, Japan, Jordan, Korea, Malaysia, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Russia and Turkey want their place. Turkey got it. I see only Japan and Korea in tarmac specs outside of Europe. Others are gravel so I don't know who are they fooling.
The problem is if promoter wants last stage as midday live TV. So 1,5 days of rally. World Rallysprint Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
They don’t need change the rallies. They need understand that they need do what other sports did, a media/internet/tv revolution. Not change rules every time
Rallies should have weekend stages to people who works and can’t go to week stages, but hardcore fans need week stages, need that feel of be free, be different, see something unique.
And no Rally 2 or Rally 2 between sections instead legs?
But if WRC, the WORLD Rally Champion goes to it. What about ERC? One rally in one morning? And national championships? 1 stage? Buhhh lets create a new promoter and a new XWRC, eXtreme Rally Championship :)
What you think about no second runs? Costs more but people don’t be at same time. Imagine 2 days with huge crowd like Fafe... they will be like sheep
Like I said on twitter, this could work:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Friday: Shakedown, ceremonial Start, super special, one leg of night stages
Saturday: 3 legs of stages (instead of 2 like now)
Sunday: Like now.
It would shorten the rally week by one day but keep the stage kms the same.
Also, this was said by Colin Clark on twitter
Quote:
Maybe slightly controversial, but for me the future of rallying lies with the audience at home and not so much with the audience in the stages
It stings a bit as someone who attends a lot of rallies, but what Colin says is correct there about the audience at home. It's the same with the vast majority of sports. The people in the stages, or in the stadiums, are already converted fans.
That's what Dave Richards was saying fifteen years ago, and what Max Mosley was saying about F1 forty years ago. It's cheaper to set cameras up on a circuit and broadcast than have film crews moving around and sending in a signal from the woods, though. Live coverage, recaps and access to them on TV or online of rally is messier now than a few years ago.
Since the IRC broadcasted the whole Monte Carlo live, we know it is possible to do it. But since then (2011?) things only changed for the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
So they have better equipment then and more not lazy people out there, if that is the problem of 2017/2018... Next thing they could shut down is live timing because is too much to work on. And introduce backyard rally and cars could go from real thing to RC ones...
For sure not. Most expensive on each event is logistics - transport, accomodation, building the manors in service etc. +-100 kms of stages is absolutely nothing in terms of budget. But adding one more event is a huuuuuge... ...problem :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I don´t like the idea of shortening all the events to two days, maybe just some of them. It could be an option for rallies which take place in (more or less) the same area, for example Argentina/Chile or Corsica/Sardinia. These events could be held on two consecutive weekends. And while these rallies are shorter you could lengthen other rallies like Monte-Carlo and give the double amount of points.
Some events lend themselves to it more I agree. Colin Clark referenced Ypres in a tweet which I agree with as a good example of a short event that packs in the value. Being held in summer helps the event, but so does the compact nature of the stages.
Trying to pack Rally GB into two days for example doesn't work in the current format. They'd need to move the service park closer to the stages, which then means the service park is less effective. So they need to be careful they don't create issues in other areas.
What I fear is they need to cut days out from all rallies to even get close to the cost-savings required for a couple more flyaway events. Shortening just a couple doesn't work. It really is a case of compromising the sport for the sake of the $$$ that you can get by adding extra rounds.
Ypres is good but it is ERC/BRC/ERT event... not a WORLD Rally Championship event
It's ridiculous. Just one year after they changed the regulations (which create more expensive cars) they're already talking about cutting the costs. If they'll make events shorter, teams will just have more money to spend on development, eventually making things even more expensive...
When will Ciesla realize that WRC popularity can’t be declared by a FIA rule and it’s not measurable by TV audiences or twiter stats? Doesn’t he knows that many previous WRC attempts to extend the series worldwide have failed?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I hope the guy understands it once for all: Rally it’s deeply linked to the passion of the people where the sport was born and got developed. FIA must recognize WRC’s Eurocentric character; otherwise they risk the series future, opening the way for rival alternatives, like it happened with IRC.
Ok, maybe there’s room to improve current events layout, as the 3 stages/60 kms double loop format, run from 9 to 5 with endless liaisons and boring halts, it’s exhausted, still, no matter the kind of shorter WRC rallys they came with, heritage events (MC, GB, NZ or ARG) identity must be respected; like it was said here before (by AndyRAC, I believe), no one would dare to turn LeMans 24H into a 6H race, just to line up with other WEC events...
In Lebanon we have very challenging tarmac stages.... Why not?
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Well, I like the idea. I would definitely come to see that event.Quote:
Originally Posted by fegh
How many rallies on final day, were really competitive or with changes between top 3 in 2017?
Just Argentina.
Tänak made mistake in Poland and Latvala in Austrália, losing second position and that's it
Ypres is wrong example - the only "short edition" in many last years was 2017 (already out of ERC). Otherwise even on ERC level Ypres used to be always the longest event with a total legth around 300 km. What is true is that all the stages are packed in very short time but that's also thanks to geography and extremely dense road network in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
And as another "bad" example I can say Rallye du Valais. In ERC/IRC era it was great event with 250-300 kms of SS. Last year in ERC it was due to regulations only 233 kms and it was worse. But what I have seen during last year, it was quite disaster. Only 200 kms of stages, some of the most beautiful stages were missing (completely stages or northern part of the valley) and the result was really sad...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Finland as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by RICARDO75
All this is proves, is that Ciesla simply has no understanding of the sport. He seems to want to repeat the mistakes of the past. Is the WRC a big enough to support 16 events? I don't think so. It's been tried before.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Just because F1 has 20+ races, doesn't mean that the WRC can also go bigger. I do still think they look at F1 for ideas - I wish they wouldn't, it's completely different world.
12 events of different character is what my ideal WRC would have. I don't have a problem with a few 2 day sprint events, as long as we get a few 4 day endurance events, plus the 3 day format events. But this is something they just can't/ won't do.
RMC: Tänak having techincal issues and had to push beyond the limit on PS, half way through he was 5th i believe...Quote:
Originally Posted by RICARDO75
Sweden: Both Tänak and Ogier had a chance against rally winner Latvala, the gap was just a few seconds.
Mexico: Meeke on PS...but that IS rallying and it went well for him.
Corsica: Just 1.3 seconds between Ogier and Sordo in the end, places 2 and 3.
Argentina: Neuville`s victory that was the closest in history.
Portugal: Can`t remember anything close in the top but it was a fine last day with 2x Fafe.
Sardegna: Pretty much like Portugal but 12 seconds in the end is quite close and no-one lifted their foot for sure.
Poland: Like You mentioned, again just mere seconds between 1. and 2. and it didn`t play out for Tänak, but again that`s rallying at its best.
Finland: Well...i like the end result and RF is RF. E: Also forgot Suninen. :D
Germany: Was pretty much decided, but everything can happen...
Spain: Close between 2. and 3.
GB: Evans was in a different league but theoretically from places 2 to 6 everyone had a chance for a podium when the day started.
Australia: Unlucky Latvala and horrific conditions that played a huge role.
So IMHO most of the time nothing was decided before the finish of PS. If we look beyond podium and places 4-6 then the picture is even more interesting.
Yes, I forgot SuninenQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo 2017
Day 1 - 1º Neuville; 2º Ogier +45.1; 3º Tänak +45.4
Day 2 - 1º Ogier; 2º Tänak +47.1; 3º Latvala +02:20.6
Day 3 - 1º Ogier; 2º Tänak +02:15.0; 3º Latvala +02:57.8 (4 stages)
Rally Sweden 2017
Day 1 - 1º Neuville; 2º Latvala +28.1; Tänak +49.7
Day 2 - 1º Latvala; 2º Tänak +03.8; 3º Ogier +16.6
Day 3 - 1º Latvala; 2º Tänak +29.2; 3º Ogier +59.5 (3 stages)
Rally Guanajuato Mexico 2017
Day 1 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +20.9; 3º Neuville +56.7
Day 2 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +30.9; 3º Neuville +01:10.5
Day 4 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +13.8; 3º Neuville +02:18.3 (2 stages)
Che Guevara Energy Drink Tour de Corse 2017
Day 1 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +10.3; 3º Neuville +25.8
Day 2 - 1º Neuville; 2º Ogier +38.9; 3º Sordo +57.7
Day 3 - 2º Neuville; 2º Ogier +54.7; 3º Sordo +56.0 (2 stages)
YPF Rally Argentina 2017
Day 1 - 1º Evans; 2º Ostberg +55.7; 3º Neuville +01:00.7
Day 2 - 1º Evans; 2º Neuville +11.5; 3º Tänak +26.8
Day 3 - 1º Neuville; 2º Evans +00.7; 3º Tänak +29.9 (3 stages)
Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2017
Day 1 - 1º Tänak; 2º Sordo +04.6; 3º Ogier +05.0
Day 2 - 1º Ogier; 2º Neuville +16.8; 3º Sordo +51.3
Day 3 - 1º Ogier; 2º Neuville +15.6; 3º Sordo +01:01.7 (4 stages)
Rally Italia Sardegna 2017
Day 1 - 1º Paddon; 2º Neuville +08.2; 3º Tänak +09.5
Day 2 - 1º Tänak; 2º Latvala +24.3; 3º Neuville +01:02.2
Day 3 - 1º Tänak; 2º Latvala +12.3; 3º Neuville +01:07.7 (4 stages)
ORLEN Rally Poland 2017
Day 1 - 1º Neuville; 2º Tänak +01.3; 3º Latvala +06.6
Day 2 - 1º Neuville; 2º Tänak +03.1; 3º Paddon +25.5
Day 3 - 1º Neuville; 2º Paddon +01:23.9; 3º Ogier +02:20.8 (4 stages)
Neste Rally Finland 2017
Day 1 - 1º Lappi; 2º Latvala +04.4; 3º Suninen +19.0
Day 2 - 1º Lappi; 2º Suninen +49.1; 3º Hänninen +53.4
Day 3 - 1º Lappi; 2º Evans +36.0; 3º Hänninen +36.3 (4 stages)
ADAC Rallye Deutschland 2017
Day 1 - 1º Tänak; 2º Mikkelsen +05.7; 3º Neuville +28.2
Day 2 - 1º Tänak; 2º Mikkelsen +21.4; 3º Ogier +29.6
Day 3 - 1º Tänak; 2º Mikkelsen +16.4; 3º Ogier +30.4 (4 stages)
RallyRACC Catalunya - Costa Daurada 2017
Day 1 - 1º Mikkelsen; 2º Ogier +01.4; 3º Meeke +03.0
Day 2 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +13.0; 3º Tänak +14.5
Day 3 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +28.0; 3º Tänak +33.0 (6 stages)
Dayinsure Wales Rally GB 2017
Day 1 - 1º Evans; 2º Tänak +24.6; 3º Ogier +26.8
Day 2 - 1º Evans; 2º Ogier +53.1; 3º Neuville +53.6
Day 3 - 1º Evans; 2º Neuville +37.3; 3º Ogier +45.2 (5 stages)
Kennards Hire Rally Australia 2017
Day 1 - 1º Mikkelsen; 2º Neuville +20.1; 3º Meeke +20.8
Day 2 - 1º Neuville; 2º Latvala +20.1; 3º Tänak +40.6
Day 3 - 1º Neuville; 2º Tänak +22.5; 3º Paddon +02:27.7 (5 stages)
brievesrallyeschool
@brievesrallye
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSitVjGWsAAy9e2.jpg
And Latvala overtook Breen's fourth place on the power stage by a tenth, also winning the power stage. That was an epic power stage moment for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Also in Germany, Evans dropped from 4th to 6th on the final day.