I think somewhere in the middle :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
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I think somewhere in the middle :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
Both SMHI and YR forecasts says that it still will be subzero temperatures from this evening but not as cold as they anticipated earlier in the week.
I read from one that does recce now that as soon as there was zero temperatures they would skid and then watering Torsby stage. It may apply several stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
last section of rower stage according to ColinQuote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
http://www.foreca.com/meteogram.php?...=metric&tf=24h
Hagfors forecast
Can privateers in WRCar and R5 choose to use gravel Tyres?
BORL report on RS stage conditions..
http://en.best-of-rallylive.com/News...-Puddles-Rally
Do not copy hagfors forecast, It is almost like Monaco for Monte :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HarriK
It will be -5..-6 tonight on Friday stages and -7..-8 on Friday morning, even colder on the surface. And also some wind, that freezes very quickly, if they water the stages, it helps a little. especially with wind, it freezes in a few minutes.
no, everybody has to use studs. If cold wont come and road conditions worsen to the stage that someone would think to use gravel - that stage will be canceled for sure, as nothing will be left from the road except mud and deep ruts... thats means that no emergency crews would be able to drive through if needed, so that means canceled stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Think also - you could see on pictures gravel, but in some places it has to be left and some ice - you dont want to drive full speed with gravel tyres on ice, trust me :D its faster to drive with studded tyre on gravel with patches of ice (sure, studs would be overheated and gone quickly), but its no way an insane driver would want to drive on a gravel with some ice with a gravel tyres...
What Ogier thinks about this https://twitter.com/rallyinguk/statu...35185659449345
Surprise surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
More from Ogier https://twitter.com/sebogier/status/697448283137056769
Thats why I asked earlier about driving with studs on frozen mud & gravel...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Ogier usually complain and whine all the time. Do not understand why he was complaining that the studs will come lose directly in the gravel and then it becomes dangerous, why does he need studs when he says that it is just gravel?
Seems that he has never heard about ERC rally Liepaja :) When you loose studs, you just drive slower on ice. It has happened before that many drivers loose studs in Sweden.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
And that's why everybody who can shall buy Pirelli tyres.
It seems autosport made an article from the tweets I posted here :p
http://beta.autosport.com/news/repor...d-be-cancelled
Many stages has had a lot of gravel in earlier years with not that much studs lost, it's not such a big issue with the wide tyres.
since when have they stopped using the proper slimmer winter tyres for this event?
gravel tyres no, but winter tyres should be fine....Quote:
Originally Posted by drive
2011 when the new cars came, they use the same rims as for gravel tyres now. Brynildsen lost about 1min in 30min of stages to Østberg in Finnskogen last weekend so it's quite a big difference if there's snow or slush.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Yeah, new tires are much less destructive for the road surface and with these tires it is much easier to drive without loosing all studs. And I must say that cars look much better with these tires as well :)
Henning has some advice for Ogier :p https://twitter.com/rallyhelene_g/st...71642612731904
By the way ERC Rally Liepaja which was several times held on frozen gravel brought quite a unique spectacle with nice grinder effects in the darkness :p Sadly there doesn't seem to be a lot of opportunities to see that in Sweden.
Depends if You run 4wd or 2WD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
All roads will be graded after the recce and new gravel will be put on according to Jarmo Mahonen.
http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/fiac...nerat%E2%80%9D
Regarding tires:Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
Keeping the studs in the tire will be a decisive factor. And there is actually a lot the driver can do.
The studs grip surprisingly well, also on gravel, but the challenge is to keep the tire/rubber temperature down.
What happens in gravel is that the increased friction and movement in the studs, and the rubber, leads to higher temperatures in the tire.
First You will feel this in the car, because the softer feeling in the tire will give very unprecice feedback, and its almost like driving in mud, where the tire wallows over the road. The studs will give way, and lay down, off course affecting grip, and it gets understeered (the front wheels has a tendency to go first).
A normal tendency is to start over driving the car, and stress the front wheels to much (especially in technical parts of the stage), with corners from 2-4 in series, and especially longer corners driven on understeer.
The driver that can regulate driving and set up to combat this, will have a huge advantage.
What needs to be done is to not exaggerate under steer, or over steer (tough riding the front wheels in constant understeer is the worst).
Sorry to say it, but we are again in Ogier/Nose End First-territory. Where braking and accelerating in a straight line becomes even more important. Also shortening the turns, so instead of hanging on to a long four wheel drift with understeer on the front, You should go in deeper, turn, then go out straight.
Ogier being first on the road will also have the advantage of not having to drive in ruts on the first loop. So if You compare his tires on stage end compared to the guys that starts from 5 and down, there will be differences. The WRC 2 guys will have their work cut out, because with the god grip in the car, compared to less hp and Nm, the change in driving style will be difficult to judge. Too slow mid corner will loose time, to fast will loose studs.
Unless there is fresh snow on the rally mornings, this looks to become more and more of an Ogier runaway.
Regarding brands: In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook (I am connected to the sale of Hankook motorsport tires in Norway). If the WRC Pirelli is built the same way, i.e. being softer than the Michelin, this will be a factor especially in WRC2. And I would expect the Michelins to handle the gravel better. For DMACK, I think this will be a very challenging event.
BTW: I think the "old" narrow winter tires looks much better, because of the extreme profile. But understand the road wear factor. Gravel tires should also be made less wearing on the road (less grip), because they destroy roads.
I agree on extreme conditions protecting the tyres, Ogier will have huge advantage all over. I don't understand this "moaning":confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
are you sure? its well kown for the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca3LKSuXIAEBHUG.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca3Ty7dW4AE3m7e.jpg:large
"In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook"
Could it have something to do with that the guys that actually drive fast and use the tyres properly are on Pirelli? ;)
https://www.facebook.com/gundersenmo...type=3&theater
Yes, very different rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Have a good feeling about Tänak and Dmack here, dmack's studs seem to work well when the conditions are perfect. At the moment they are not perfect but Tänak's position is good, not so far in front and so far in back. TOP5 would be great result.
Strange to see this as Pirelli are well known for keeping studs better than other brands because they use different production technology. From what I recall from Jänner and Liepaja (one asphalt/snow the other mostly frozen gravel) Pirelli usually keep studs better there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
If I'm not mistaken the difference is that in Michelin tyres the studs are glued in while in Pirelli tyres they are overmoulded (which shall allow them to use softer compound) but I may be wrong.
here we are again
Sébastien Ogier @SebOgier
Like often, so much b......t on the net...
I ❤️ @RallySweden and never called for cancellation of the full rally!
Just 100% gravel stages...
Lorenzo Bertelli @fuckmatie37
I have to agree with @SebOgier, we are not in the condition to have a safe rally, is not @RallySweden fault! #NotSafeWithStuds
FIA rally director Jarmo Mahonen has insisted Rally Sweden goes ahead as planned - despite Sebastien Ogier's call for it to be cancelled.
Mahonen attended a meeting along with rally organisers, WRC Promoter and the teams on Wednesday afternoon to discuss the state of the roads following the first day of the recce and the weather forecast for the remainder of the week.
Ogier: Rally Sweden should be cancelled
"We are running as scheduled." Mahonen said.
"We have already been working for a few days to try to resolve the situation and we remain positive.
"The teams, the FIA, the rally organisation and the promoter are all committed to support competition."
Asked about Ogier's criticism of the roads, Mahonen added: "Of course, we listen to them and it is about safety in the end.
"But at the same time, it is always a little game: they compare to other years.
"It is his opinion and I understand that, but he has forgotten that his team is behind the decision to run the race."
ANALYSIS: How Sweden ended up in this position
Mahonen said the World Rally Championship teams all backed the plan to go ahead with the rally.
"If the weather gets worse, we will see what happens and sit down and take a different decision," he added.
"But so far it looks good."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report...medium=twitter
In my opinion the weather and the road conditions is a big problem mainly for the organization due to possible road damage. For the the crews it means that they have to drive different, they need to keep in mind to save studs and take care about possible frozen ruts but I don't see why it shall be somewhat specifically dangerous. As was said before - Rally Liepaja in past few years was run several times on frozen gravel and nobody was crying that it was dangerous.
I've seen in Liepaja 2 years ago (sort of close conditions) that Dmack lost studs more than other brands. Maybe they updated tyre 'inside' since then, but tyre tread looks the same this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Everybody talks about gravel/ice, but forecast says that snow is coming also. If its snow on the road, at least first 3-5 will suffer a lot with wide tires. If less snow - then first 5 will benefit of course.
Most important - how cold will be tonight...
Has anyone blamed Red Bull Media House for the lack of snow yet?