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Not anything special with that cut. Is there a rule about two leghtways wheels to be on the road?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Where do you draw the line though? From the inboard with Ogier the 2nd time through it looked like everyone had been cutting outside the edge of the road...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I know, where do we draw the line? In this case the outcome decides by clerks.
Yes, the steward's decision refers to it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
http://d2t24n70pdbj8s.cloudfront.net...Bulletin-1.pdf
2. Deviation from formed Roadway
Competitors are advised that the compulsory itinerary of the rally is deemed to follow the defined roadway and that significant deviations from the roadway will be treated as a breach of FIA WRC Regulations Art. 14.2.
I expect that next year's WRC rules will include a clarification so that rally officials no longer need to add it to supplementary regulations or bulletins - causes less confusion that way too as ruling would be universal.
Remember when Neuville went off in Germany last year and he cut over 100 metres and didn't get a penalty? In Poland Mikkelsen got just 10s. Consistency of FIA...
Same spot right?
https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/...13&oe=548400C8
That penalty is just farce in my opinion.
just a way to give VW a 1-2-3 and the manufacturers the title already...shame, could have been a good fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Significant deviation must be much more than that. For example shortcuts gaining roadmileage. This is just normal cutting which happens to be normal where ever itīs possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
Doesn't seem soQuote:
Originally Posted by MartijnS
But still just a cut, if not the same spot
Should be penaltized too I guess. Not caught in-time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Meeke needs to hone his SSS skills. Shit, he has lost roughly 10s on 6km's
The fact it happened on live tv likely screwed Kris , i'm just wondering is there anyone going through all the onboards checking no one goes off the track so they can be penalised , as the decision stated the stewards have become aware !!!
In Poland Mikkelsen only got a Fine and a warning ......http://www.rajdpolski.pl/pliki/zawod...sion_no._5.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
So no real consistency at all......
What bloody next? This is ridiculous.
I am not a steward but I would have made the same decision. This is not off-road rallying, so competitor must stay on the road. Off course, organisers could place hay bales on every such place but it's simpler for everyone if that's not needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Where have you been? A rallydriver cuts everywhere he can, but not deviates from road. Itīs a huge difference. Have you never seen such cuts before?Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
the decision is ridiculous... i think a penalty of 10 seconds would suffice and would be fair. Although i think that he could also get away with it and none would say anything.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
The problem is that such cutting has been part of the game ALWAYS. For example in Rally Germany it has been absolutely common thing. When some penalty shall apply than it must apply always and always same. When it is just a random pick twice in a season with a random punishment it makes more bad than good. In fact it's complete farce.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
+100Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
It is safe to say that Atko has no place in the sport at its top level anymore... sad but true.
what is the length of this stage ? rallybase gives it as 30km and citroen racing as 24.
maybe they shortened the stage?
edit
SUN 08:20 - SS15 IN DETAIL
Sundays opener has been shortened by 5.48km but is otherwise similar to 2013. It is fast with little gravel on the surface and a largely clay base. It is well known for a deep watersplash and also for being the stage where Sebastien Ogier crashed three years ago
Has been shortened by 5.48km
Quote:
Originally Posted by raybak
Shortened as Ray said
judging from the final time they did.
Ah you all beat me.. anyway I agree with NOT. Never really been a fan of Atko. Nice guy, but just not fast enough...
Surely you recognize that there are two different points in your post.
Corner cutting has always been part of the sport - but the question is when does corner cutting turn into shortcutting (which is a rule violation)? Not only is shortcutting unfair, it is also potentially unsafe and inconvenience to rally organisers (as proved by Mikkelsen's let's-unroot-some-potatoes -shortcut in Poland) who have to foot the bill for damages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
This is a problem, albeit not a huge one. And for this reason, there should be clear, explicit rule that says what is an acceptable cut and what is not - plus what the penalty should be. As it stands now, rally stewards (which do have permanent membership from rally to rally) have to pass sentences without any reference from the rules and hence the varying standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The fight with Paddon and Ostberg is on!
The pressure is on this morning, looks like all or nothing from a few of them
iRally @Official_iRally · 1 λεπ.
Julian Porter reports that Mikko Hirvonen may have an engine issue of sorts, warning light on in the car at the end of SS15
Art. 14.2. The organisers may erect barriers or any other hindrances where they believe competitors have deviated from the roadway during reconnaissance or the first running of the stages.
for me the decision of the stewards was based on this...
there were posts there to prevent cutting so i think it was too obviuos right from the start...
if the posts weren't there i think he would get away with it
Yes but what happens if car 1 cuts takes the posts out and some cars follow , do they punish car 1 for the cut , how then can they punish the next cars if the posts are not in place , they are opening a big can of worms are they not ....Quote:
Originally Posted by marcosg
I spoke about shortcutting (whole car off the road). That has been common thing in Germany and other rallies (driving straight through some S-turns for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
Totally disagree. When rules lead to picking random situations and giving random penalties than it is huge problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
SUN 09:16 - UP NEXT: SS16
Bucca is the roughest stage of the rally, with stones on the road and bedrock poking through for much of the first half. It becomes smoother towards the finish. The clay-based roads are fast, with big straights dotted with crests and jumps.
It's understandable if the driver was looking for an advantage but it didn't look like it, more a case of carrying too much speed and scrubbing speed off on the grass. How is the deviation rule applied to genuine overshoots or similar?
It can be argued to be either random or consistent, depending on one's view. Random because there have been two cases with two different penalties - yes, I see your point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
But consistent because first time this matter surfaced in Poland, where penalty was small, and all top drivers were now expected to know about the issue. So, when rule was included in the bulletin before the rally, drivers were supposed to have been forewarned not to deviate from the route. And when Meeke did it despite incident in Poland and despite explicit ruling in bulletin, it can be argued that his act was willful, deliberate and thus due for harsher punishment. Effectively, next driver to do so should expect even harsher punishment, hence the pattern.
This reminds me of the underwear-gate few years back. It had similar air to it, drivers were forewarned, some did not believe and got hit with small penalties. Some did not believe even then and got hit with harsher penalties. Now there have been no top drivers without fireproof underwear, they know FIA means business. Same should apply here - difference being that WRC regs do not have explicit ruling (for now).