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No, the forum is indicative of the people that choose to vote on this forum. However, it does give a clear idea about what the more committed fans think. After all, the casual fan probably wouldn't bother putting up with all the crap we have to ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! Another thinly veiled insult from Knockie, the person who complains when people so much as appear to insult him :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Formula 1
Yes, let's have a poll. :D
You're so annoying Dan. lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
:up: At least someone who's got the balls to at least say what he thinks rather than make some cowardly little comment :D :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
So, you are not of the opinion that F1 fans join motorsport forums to discuss F1 then? Of course, there is no such thing as a general F1 fan, as the demographic and criteria that would class an individual as an F1 fan would be unique to that individual.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
There are those that want to discuss, and those that attack discussions as they differ from their own.
That's neither thinly veiled nor an attack, merely a statement of fact.
BTW, you have not appeared to insult Retro, you actually have, you know you have, and are now going through the motions of trying to laugh it off as an overreaction. Without being able to see facial expression etc, the printed word has the ability to offend and insult, even when the intention was not the purpose.
Retro said he was insulted, the simple and courteous thing to have done would be to have apologised, followed by expalining it was not, and why it was not intended to offend or insult. However, you have deemed it appropriate to attempt to throw the situation on its head and are now accusing very banal posts from Retro as insulting.
Get a grip, deal with it, move on.
Now then, where is that Poll?
Thanks Mods! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
:confused: I was saying casual fans as opposed to us committed F1 fans. Things like KERS yes, KERS no, medals not points, Diffusers, blown diffusers, no blown diffusers, diffusers back, stupid penalties, Ferrari favouritism, McLaren bias, grooved tyres, strange electronics, team orders etc. Committed fans are fed up with this crap whereas casual fans don't know about all this and don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
The latest one is trying to make the ultimate open wheel championship into some sort of enclosed coupé series. Now, you may be quite new to F1 Daniel but there are others that have followed this sport all their lives are fed up with the messing about.
On top of all that, do you really feel you are all that significant? The answer is no so can we drop the personal and get back to discussing this thread as you are the only one that is being insulting.
Listen, I'm done with your blatant trolling and am adding you to my ignore list. I've also reported you for blatant personal insults.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Formula 1
I guess we'll let the mods be the judge in that one then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Heat and kitchen, heat and kitchen.......
This subject is still going on :s hock:
Listen, I have no problem with the heat in here, but I object to someone insulting me and then complaining when I'm not even insulting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
to be honest I think Retro and Daniel are both being prats, and having met Retro in real life i can confirm he can be one then too ;)
as for canopies I have major misgivings about extraction with no doors, especially when upside down. I also have an issue with a mechanism for the canopiy to be ejected after an accident given that this could mean the canopy itself could become additional debris evither from an accident or if the system fails and ejects on the track. the device itself could therefore become the major contributor of a whole new accident.
the profile is an issue with the narrow cockpit, with visibility issues if its too think and also the rain/oil/bugs issue, it can't be wiped by the driver, it can't have tear off's removed and would need some sort of cleaning device (wipers), but that wouldn't celar bugs and oil, becoming a major visibility risk.
Whilst it might prevent some head to object incidents, these are very rare, although normally pretty serious, i think there is serious potential for it to create more issues than it solves.
then you do have a historical/formula issue, with the cars being open cockpitted. and i do belive this sort of thing should be mandated in lower formulae if anywhere where the cars are arguably less strong and run on less safe tracks. its not an F1 issue, its an all open cockpit cars issue.
I also fail to see how McNish's accident was worse or more dangerous to a driver than say Kubica's in canada the other year. Both driver survived largely unharmed, on in a coupe one not.
That'll be a no then? :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Fair points. I apologise if I've been a prat, but I really do just want to discuss the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
As I said above, I think we've reached the limits of what talking on a forum can achieve on this subject, the FIA certainly won't put this into place if the other issues that it could potentially cause, haven't been sorted. One thing I don't quite agree with is how a canopy makes extraction of a driver from an upside down car any worse. With HANS there is no way a driver can get out of an upside down car these days anyway. I'm not a canopyphile or anything, I don't just want to see F1 cars with canopies on because it gives me my jollies, I honestly feel that over the last 10 years or so there have been quite a few near misses. I mean Schuey nearly got his head taken off last year in the final race of the season in the first few corners if I remember right.
I for one am glad that the FIA is looking into this, it may turn out that they can make a workable solution including a canopy or a windscreen or it may turn out that it's not possible. But hell I'm really happy it's being looked into.
yep, that just about covers it, but it was a qualifed one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
all that said i dread the day we all watch a driver get beheaded on live TV when the freak accident noone thinks will ever happen finally does. there are probably a number of drivers who'd still be with us still too (thinking Tom Pryce, Senna, Henry Surtees to name a few) if this sort of protection were available.
put it this way, if they can come up with an effective solution that kept the core of F1 the same and protected the drivers without creating new problems i certainly wouldn't stop watching F1 because of it
Or, if it is the marshall that is beheaded trying to assist a trapped driver and the canopy ejects.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
That is my view too. I'll repeat myself for the thousandth time here, but I don't want to see any sort of "solution" implemented before any new risk factors are evaluated and accounted for :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
but the HANS only connects the drivers to their own shoulders doesn't it. it may limit their head movements but it shouldn't stop them getting out of the car whether its upside down or not. its the same for anyone with the HANS device in any catergory, unless i've misunderstood your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
HANS is to stop severe whiplash and is effectively a yoke that rests on the shoulders and is tethered to the helmet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
I think.....
It connects the helmet to the HANS device which means that the drivers ability to bend their neck is lessened. I remember a little while after the HANS device became mandatory in the WRC, V8 supercars, F1 and so on, Marcos Ambrose rolled has car upside down into a gravel trap and had great difficulty getting out. I can't remember which race or which year it was, but nevertheless it hindered his ability to get out and I don't think it makes it easy for a driver to get out of an upside down F1 car, that said I think we wouldn't have Kubica here after his accident in Canada so overall HANS is a very good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
:laugh: It might be painful, it might be dangerous and it might be illegal but it's never boring ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
The HANS is frequently fitted with quick release buckles that allow the driver to detach the helmet from the device. The device is only held in place by the shoulder belts. Once the belts are released, especially on the smaller models, the device really doesn't restrict motion of the neck anymore than the helmet when the driver isn't strapped in.
The stock models for formula cars allow up to 40 degrees forward motion, and drivers are able to get in and out of stock cars wearing the HANS fairly easily.
Fyi:
Helmet Attachment - Quick Click, for SA Helmet
Ambrose was probably wearing a model with more restricted motion suited to a more upright seating position in a saloon car and without the release buckles.
Again, I am confused?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Can you, or anyone else point out one instance on this thread where I insulted you or have been trolling? Even when you claim my opinions are stupid or I have had to clarify a post because you took offence where none was intended, I have tried to do so without ridiculing you. (which would have been quite easy).
I really don't know where you are coming from or why you're getting so worked up so it really is best if you do put me on your ignore list.
Listen, you know very well where you insulted me and anyone who knows you and your track record will see it. You've even done it in this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Formula 1
Daniel and Retro, please discuss your issues via PM thanks :)
Thanks Pino! This is an enjoyable thread to discuss the pros and cons of the suggestion minus all of the personal attacks.
Sorry mate. Back to the subject which seems to be a resounding NO to the idea of closed cockpits.Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
Hope the TWG don't adopt this idea.
The silly though about this was that the poll shouldn't be about coupe's but having a canopy or a windscreen, but whatever :)
Never flippin' happy!!
Just saying :)
As Chas 'n Dave would sing....... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Thread: Should f1 run coupes?
Silly moderators. They should have known the question that is the thread title wasn't really the question. :)
Well we have been talking almost exclusively about having a canopy for the last few pages (you know, since the FIA started investigating the feasibility of a CANOPY/WINDSCREEN) in F1?Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
But I guess agreeing with me and being sensible about it wouldn't have allowed you to take your childish little dig at me :)
I've been advocating that the move to coupes (and you likened this with your referral to McNish in Le Mans) and the loss of open wheel, open cockpit is against what I see as the whole ethos of F1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
If you've had a change of heart since starting the thread, that, like a lighthouse keeper, is your lookout.
People that change their minds on here as often as the wind are generally the ones that criticise Hill for adjusting his stance after more than a decade :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
A canopy does not make a coupe, it makes an enclosed cockpit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
We can't help it if you already changed your mind since starting the thread, and if you wanted a poll you should have specified what question you wanted. There was no dig involved, you started a thread asking a question about couples and the responses and poll have answered that question.
The canopy question is IMO an entirely different question. There are many ways even a partial canopy could add to driver safety, yet not require special releases any more difficult than the current driver surround method.
Dan and I are the clear minority, a.k.a. the Bolsheviks!
I'm sorry but the last few pages were specifically in regards to the canopy :dozey: I didn't change my mind, the FIA started investigating canopies and that was what were were discussing in case you hadn't noticed :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I agree Commissar gloomyDAY! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Do you guys ever sleep?!