Please Mikko, something different this time!! (an open letter)

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Originally Posted by Eli

juho hanninen should have shared Mikko's seat alongside Bouffier...

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I don't know about Bouffier, is he just a tarmac specialist or good on gravel too but I really don't understand the high praise of Juho Hänninen??

What comes to Mikko, I'm anxious to see him in Rally Sweden. There should be absolutely no excuse him for not to be on podium. One of his favourite events, familiar car and team, suitable for his driving style etc... If I see similar Mikko than this weekend with total lack of fighting spirit and pace, well, tha's about it then :mark:

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

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Originally Posted by Eli

juho hanninen should have shared Mikko's seat alongside Bouffier...

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I don't know about Bouffier, is he just a tarmac specialist or good on gravel too but I really don't understand the high praise of Juho Hänninen??

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What is it with you rebellious Finns these days? :p A few years ago on this forum some members gave the impression that all Finns were world champion material and if they turned out not to be it was somebody else's fault.

I am personally quite sure that given the opportunities than Hirvonen has had over the years that Juho could have done more with it. When he is gelled with the car he has a lot of flair and commitment. I hope he can show it this year and that he is not already too old.

As for Bouffier he is quite capable on gravel too, he did a better job than Kubica on Rally Poland last year despite driving a knackered old 207.

I am quite sure Mikko will be better for the rest of the season than he was on Monte, if he isn't then Malcolm may as well bring back his son :laugh:

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Originally Posted by RS

What is it with you rebellious Finns these days? :p A few years ago on this forum some members gave the impression that all Finns were world champion material and if they turned out not to be it was somebody else's fault.

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Loeb beat them sensenless for 9 years like they were stray dogs roaming the garbage bins... he broke their spirit and made their arrogance disappear... praise became hate for their once glorified idols...

and on top of that another french took over as the big boss man and treats them like they do not have souls nowadays...

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

Loeb beat them sensenless for 9 years like they were stray dogs roaming the garbage bins... he broke their spirit and made their arrogance disappear... praise became hate for their once glorified idols...

and on top of that another french took over as the big boss man and treats them like they do not have souls nowadays...

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Hmmm, I would tone down the language but fundamentally I think you are right that the dominance of the French in recent years has maybe forced some people to be more realistic. Not A.F.F. by the way who started this thread in the first place.

We can apreciate the achievemts of Loeb and Ogier. The sad thing is that Grönholm was the last Finn with a true fighting spirit + skills

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Originally Posted by COD

We can apreciate the achievemts of Loeb and Ogier. The sad thing is that Grönholm was the last Finn with a true fighting spirit + skills

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Yes but he was beaten in an ugly retirement by Loeb while he still had 1-2 years in him....Latvala also has the fighting spirit but he is just reckless i think if he manages to get things together for 1-2 consecutive years he could be champion once like Mcrae if he is lucky and if the contract he has allows him to do so.

Other than that, now that teams do not waste their money and put driving skills above manager tricks we see the true Finish so called talents...an assortment of nobodies...

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

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Originally Posted by COD

We can apreciate the achievemts of Loeb and Ogier. The sad thing is that Grönholm was the last Finn with a true fighting spirit + skills

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Other than that, now that teams do not waste their money and put driving skills above manager tricks we see the true Finish so called talents...an assortment of nobodies...

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If they would take talented Finns instead of the favourites of one manager,there would be better Finnish drivers in the championship

exactly...

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

Loeb beat them sensenless for 9 years like they were stray dogs roaming the garbage bins... he broke their spirit and made their arrogance disappear... praise became hate for their once glorified idols...

and on top of that another french took over as the big boss man and treats them like they do not have souls nowadays...

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Loeb didn't break our spirit. 100 000 russian didn't break our spirit. Swedish junior hockey team didn't break our spirit you most certainly won't break our spirit. It is very hard to praise something which isn't good. Have you seen me praising you for example?If we talk about Finnish drivers then yes, Mikko seem to be without a spirit. Latvala however is weird. I don't know why he makes things so complicated for himself. One good stage is followed by two bad ones. One win is followed by two retirements. This year he is having a mental coach!!? Isn't that a last sign that he is his own worst enemy. Then my personal opinion about Juho Hänninen, sorry RS, I have to disagree with you. On ERC level Juho is a champion material. On modern WRC level, Juho is an avarage. Speedwise he won't fight for podiums. I had high hopes for Esapekka Lappi but I'm sad to notice that he didn't gamble but played it safe and enjoy the salary from Skoda. Yes he gets experience but I would love to have an honest answer does he feel any frustration not being a part of WRC or even WRC2? The rest of the artillery we have lack the money. So, what should we praise for now, especially being known what we have used to in the history :mark:

What comes to french super-Sebastiens, well, they are great champions, especially Loeb but Ogier seems unbeatable at this moment.Both guys have earned what they have and I personally have nothing bad to say about either one of them. Although, IMO Ogier is more arrogant than Loeb but I guess it's needed, it's one thing he get's his fuel from. But I also think that Loeb's dominance was bad for WRC and that is not just Finnish opinion, it's a global one. Should Ogier do the same, there is but handfull of hardcore fans left who follow WRC. Everybody else are sitting in the arena with a hotdog watching global rallycross.

[quote=A.F.F.]

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Originally Posted by "N.O.T":39amcvk5

Then my personal opinion about Juho Hänninen, sorry RS, I have to disagree with you. On ERC level Juho is a champion material. On modern WRC level, Juho is an avarage. Speedwise he won't fight for podiums. I had high hopes for Esapekka Lappi but I'm sad to notice that he didn't gamble but played it safe and enjoy the salary from Skoda. Yes he gets experience but I would love to have an honest answer does he feel any frustration not being a part of WRC or even WRC2? The rest of the artillery we have lack the money. So, what should we praise for now, especially being known what we have used to in the history :mark:

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[/quote:39amcvk5]

We'll have to agree to disagree on Juho. I repeat that it might now be too late for him, but I still think he would have had a better career than Mikko given the same chances. Mikko has a lot to thank Malcolm Wilson for, indeed Latvala does too.

As for Lappi, have you not been following developments in WRC the last year or so? There are some guys around now; Neuville, Meeke, Hanninen, Mikelssen, Bouffier... where did they come from? I honestly place learning to drive above learning the rallies :)

Competition level of IRC (now ERC) has been reasonably higher than that of WRC2 (SWRC) partly because of stupid rules of WRC2 where for example 2013 champion and vice-champion almost never competed against each other. They were of completely different driving level and still "battling" some strange indirect chess game.

IRC/ERC is a proven talent finding series. SWRC/WRC2 has so far failed in that point of view.

I'm another who rates Hanninen. He needs a proper full programme to show what be can do. Similar to what I've been saying about Meeke for years. These 'one off' events are of no use. Another driver who hasn't done a full WRC season in a WRCar.

I just jumped back to year 2006 and read the posts from the beginning of the archive. I noticed that I've been yapping this same scheise about Latvala from 2007 !!! I could have just copy and paste my previous post. :mark:

Back in the 80's and 90's, the good old days, team bosses catched new drivers from lower classes or British championship. Today is an exception because last years there have been none extra seats. Who can remember a driver roulette what we had before this season started?? I surely can't. If WRc promotion has failed misarable, WRC2 has been a total disaster which is a shame because promoted right, it could be a great formula. IMO the steps to WRC should be from ERC to WRC2, not other way around. The rules should be fair and logical and it should have media coverage. I was very glad to see that the coverage MotorsTV send, they have WRC2 coverage included. :up:

What comes to Lappi, he suffers from the teams strategy. I know by a fact he wishes to drive the World Championship Rallies, even in WRC 2, to get to know them for future. What is he driving now? ERC? A month a go or so he was driving in China some rally. WTF? Last year he should have driven WRC2 but the team chose otherwise. I agree RS that learning to drive s more important than learning to drive in rallyes, just ask Novokov :) But driving in WRC2 could have been a good practise too.

I think this subject needs an own thread don't you think or is there one already? This one is for praising Mikko.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

What comes to Lappi, he suffers from the teams strategy. I know by a fact he wishes to drive the World Championship Rallies, even in WRC 2, to get to know them for future. What is he driving now? ERC? A month a go or so he was driving in China some rally. WTF? Last year he should have driven WRC2 but the team chose otherwise.

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Lappi still has a lot to prove. He probably shouldn't have been in APRC last year, I agree... but he didn't win that either.

Of course it is good to have some experience of WRC events, but again I think it is more important that he learns how to drive in a competitive championship. Look at Breen for example, he spent 2012 winning sWRC then he switched to ERC where it turned out he wasn't up to scratch yet, even though last year was weaker than the last few years of IRC.

I agree with Andy, you can't make too much of a judgement on Hanninen when he has done only two events in a modern World Rally Car. After IRC (which he never won) Neuville needed some time to acclimatise to WRC, but now he is probably the most exciting talent after Ogier, even if there is still some work to do...

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I think this subject needs an own thread don't you think or is there one already? This one is for praising Mikko.

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Hehe, I don't see much of that :laugh:

There is a silverlining, Mikko has not totally lost his speed. At this point his career is going downhill faster than ever ;)

I still it doesn't matter where you learn, as long as you learn to drive in different conditions, IMHO APRC was a good place to learn for Lappi. If you look at what for example Mäkinen did before he became a WRC regular, he did a lot of different events in Europe. As long as ypu learn to compete in dfferent roads and conditions, it will benefit you for the future. Patience with Lappi, he is still a very young driver. ERC now and then if he is good enough, more WRC events

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

There is a silverlining, Mikko has not totally lost his speed. At this point his career is going downhill faster than ever ;)

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+1

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Originally Posted by COD

I still it doesn't matter where you learn, as long as you learn to drive in different conditions, IMHO APRC was a good place to learn for Lappi. If you look at what for example Mäkinen did before he became a WRC regular, he did a lot of different events in Europe. As long as ypu learn to compete in dfferent roads and conditions, it will benefit you for the future. Patience with Lappi, he is still a very young driver. ERC now and then if he is good enough, more WRC events

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But some point he has to make a decision and propably take a risk. By that I mean leave a salaryseat and make an investment. That is something Hänninen did way too late. I personally won't believe there will be more manufacturers in WRC in the future. And the same guys fill the seats so unless Lappi is superior, he has to gamble. But like you said, he is still very young.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I personally won't believe there will be more manufacturers in WRC in the future. And the same guys fill the seats so unless Lappi is superior, he has to gamble. But like you said, he is still very young.

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Skoda can be a good route to VW in the future, if Latvala and Mikelssen don't keep their jobs in the longer term.

Let's see how he does in ERC this year, I believe Skoda will give him the necessary programme to get the job done. After that Fabia R5 is coming...

Skoda knows very well why they have sent Esapekka out of WRC2 to starts in APRC and some ERC events...

Btw. Do you have any inside info about Skoda's R5 progress?

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Skoda knows very well why they have sent Esapekka out of WRC2 to starts in APRC and some ERC events...

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Marketing Skoda?

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Skoda knows very well why they have sent Esapekka out of WRC2 to starts in APRC and some ERC events...

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Marketing Skoda?

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I thought more to clear the way for Wiegand in WRC2.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

Btw. Do you have any inside info about Skoda's R5 progress?

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Yes, they are intensively working on the car.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Skoda knows very well why they have sent Esapekka out of WRC2 to starts in APRC and some ERC events...

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Marketing Skoda?

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This is only one of the sides...

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Originally Posted by RS

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Skoda knows very well why they have sent Esapekka out of WRC2 to starts in APRC and some ERC events...

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Marketing Skoda?

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I thought more to clear the way for Wiegand in WRC2.

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Yes, this is also one of the reasons :)

A stupid question just hit me. Does VAG allow Skoda on the same stages than VW, even in different class? Os PSA for that matter?

A.F.F.: Lappi didn't manage to win APRC against Gaurav Gill (and no other reasonable competitor). He definitely isn't a WRC material in the moment. He didn't shine in his ERC events either (except his victory in Switzerland but with lesser competition).

On the other hand I would bet Mikkelsen won't continue in VW if he doesn't improve reasonably. For some reason it looks like he stopped progressing two or three years back. If he is gone and if Lappi is ruling ERC he can get on his seat. If he is not ruling ERC or at least not fighting for podiums on every rally he is not ready - the very same Mikkelsen won two IRC titles. Hänninen won both IRC and ERC. Lappi hasn't managed anything near that so far.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

A stupid question just hit me. Does VAG allow Skoda on the same stages than VW, even in different class? Os PSA for that matter?

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I think they can drive WRC with S2000 but why? There is no marketing value for a manufacturer in driving WRC2. Nobody cares about it except hardcore fans. There is no TV media coverage either. Only overall results count...

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Originally Posted by Mirek

On the other hand I would bet Mikkelsen won't continue in VW if he doesn't improve reasonably. For some reason it looks like he stopped progressing two or three years back.

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I think that he stopped his progress after his first title in IRC. In the next season he was not so good (or lucky?) like year before, he was not be able to be on same speed on most of the events.

Who knows for how long VW will be in WRC? About Lappi, I didn't say he was WRC material, I just wanted him WRC2. Like I said, MotorsTV showed a wrap-up after every day of WRC2. So those R5 Fiestas got at least some coverage :)

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

Who knows for how long VW will be in WRC? About Lappi, I didn't say he was WRC material, I just wanted him WRC2. Like I said, MotorsTV showed a wrap-up after every day of WRC2. So those R5 Fiestas got at least some coverage :)

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One example from the past - when Proton moved from IRC to SWRC, their "media coverage" were going 60% down...

And to say the truth, WRC2 is good for gaining experience on WRC roads and possibility for good results. But for sure not for competition. And that is what this young drivers need - serious competition.

I agree with both of your posts.

Why on earth FIA won't make WRC2 more appealing?

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I agree with both of your posts.

Why on earth FIA won't make WRC2 more appealing?

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I think that there is same answer like for question "Why on earth FIA won't make WRC more appealing?" - Because they are not interested in making rallysport more appealing...

And on that bombshell I guess it's time to hand over this thread to Mikko :)

It is not shame to be 5th or 6th ...but with really good times and few of the stages on podium.

I wonder what Wilson is thinking right now? Because I think Wilson really thought by bringing Mikko back to Behind the steering wheel of Fiesta, he could dig out the pace he once had. I feel sad, really. And I rest my case Your Honour. :sad:

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I wonder what Wilson is thinking right now? Because I think Wilson really thought by bringing Mikko back to Behind the steering wheel of Fiesta, he could dig out the pace he once had. I feel sad, really. And I rest my case Your Honour. :sad:

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He didn't have the money or the ong time plan to keep Neuville so he settled for crap. I can not see that he ever thought Mikko could be back in the form he once was. Besides, Mikko has only once been faster than his teammate, now he can do at least that with a kid as a teammmate. But I predict that in most rallies a private Fiesta will kikc his ass

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I wonder what Wilson is thinking right now?

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Tanak and Bouffier?

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Originally Posted by RS

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

I wonder what Wilson is thinking right now?

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Tanak and Bouffier?

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Or.....
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